MA Training for Cdn Law Enforcement

[Kensh0]

Hey guys, first of all I just want to say hello to everyone (I'm new to the boards), secondly I was hoping you guys could help me out. Currently, I am planning to join the R.C.M.P (canada's national police force) in two years and I am looking in taking up a Martial Art to better prepare me for the duties of the job. As well, I have aspirations to become a member of their Emegency Response Team, similar to s.w.a.t in the U.S. The martial arts available to me in the area I live are Hapikido, Judo, BJJ, and Muay Thai, and Japanese jiu-Justu. I was wondering if you guys could suggest the most applicable MA or arts that would best assist me in my career goals.

I realize it's kind of a broad question to ask, mainly I'm just looking for some imput and ideas.

I thought combining judo with bjj would be a good idea, considering the nature of the job, but with that there will be a lack of exposure to any sort of striking techniques.

If there is any L.E.O on the board that could offer some insight on this topic it would be greatly appreciated. thanks.

[jules]

let's see. What do cops want to do? They want to apprehend the subject without hurting them too much. You really don't want to go to the ground against street kids because their friends are goign to be around. But you would need to know how to fight when the situation arises... So a mix of MT and hapkido/ japanese jj (from what i understand it is mostly standing).

[Kensh0]

anyone else want to offer anything to this topic. Snif* Snif*

[c0bra]

well considering your an officer and with your choices. id probally go with Judo or some jiu jutsu (dont know much about all the diff styles/varients of jj). and MT wouldnt hurt.

[NWPTrainer]

I'd say go woth the judo and maybe ad the BJJ...MT is okay, but as a peace officer, you have to keep the force continuum in mind...If you can grab the guy and throw him or restrain him that's what you are supposed to do. As an officer, if you are in a situation serious enough to justify striking, you have weapons. You do need some basic striking skills, but if you start judo now, in two years you'll have reached the stage to start learning atemi-waza...(striking ttechniques...)

LEO and Security personnel have got to remember that striking is a last ditch, "Oh damn, the dude grabbed my gun, I'm screwed!" option. As professionals, you ARE held to a higher standard than Joe Civilian. The idea is to CONTROL the situation, NOT DESTROY the opponent, regardless of what spme macho-posturing fools would like to think.

RLTW

[Kensh0]

NWP I completely agree with you, as a L.E.O you are bound by many rules of conduct and laws regarding the use of force thus MT might, for long term training, not be a productive choice. As of now, I'm looking to take a 8 week introduction course in MT (learning the basic punches, kicks, etc) while I do judo. When the MT course is over with than I may incorporate Bjj or regular JJ with my judo training. Good plan?

This is the JJ place I was thinking of going.

http://www.kwjiujitsu.com/index.htm
Whatcha think?Looks good? They seem pretty nice there.

[Szczepankiewicz]

What part of Canada are you in?

The Joint Locks in Hapkido, at least the ones taught by Alain Burrese, are some wickedly effective and painful skills to have. (Checkout www.burrese.com he's in Missoula, Montana.)

Judo teaches no standing locks, nor any locks other than arm bars on the ground. However, Judo is a good foundational art that will provide many benifits. Judo is usually free and pretty consistant as far as training goes.

Same goes for BJJ in the foundational benefits and consistency.

Japanese Jujutsu is as varied in what they teach as most karate arts. Given your list this would be my last choice, even though it is my foundational art (sort of).

MT would be good, if you can integrate some Krabi Krabong to get the full spectrum of training. (Talk to William)

Good luck!

Spanky

[Kensh0]

I currently live in Ontario Canada (waterloo) where I go to university.

[NWPTrainer]

Originally posted by Szczepankiewicz

Judo teaches no standing locks, nor any locks other than arm bars on the ground.

THis is not entirely true. THe same locks that Judo uses for nage waza can work when you are oin your feet...or most can at any rate. There are also some other locks taught in self-defense classes at most judo schools. Kano developed Judo as a safer way to practice Ju-jitsu for self-defense..not as a sport..Read his bok..it's very enlightening....

Kensho.....I'd say the 8Week course would be good if you can commbine it woth the Judo. Going to BJJ and Judo togfether later would be a great methiod for a LEO....God willing my book will be out later this year or early next. I go into great detail on how to utlize the basic fundamentals into a comprehensive and complete system...regardless of your base style.... the systems approach involves using the same neuro-muscular motions for unarmed standing, ground, and weapons skills. At least half the book is applicable to police and security.

RLTW

[Kensh0]

Just another question for ya's. Do you think it would be wiser for me just to work on MT and Judo at the same time over the course of the next two years-leaving out bjj- as an effective self-defense method for policing. Or still stick with the orginal plan of doing Judo and Bjj after the 8 eight week course.

I just need to make sure that I don't waste my time doing a MA that would otherwise have no value in my carrer goals. Thus, I want to make the best choice possible and it is a difficult one.

[NWPTrainer]

Kensh0.....Keeping in mind that I am not a LEO, but d have some experience with the needs of the field...I'd go with the Judo/BJJ combo. THe Muay Thai is good, but as a cop, you'll get much more benefit out of the grappling systems....

If you pay attention to the underlying concepts of BJJ and Judo, you'll have a complete M.A., as long as you continue practicing the skills you learn in MT and expand them...

I work event security for extremely large venues as a part-time occupation.....Last nigth I worked a Los Tamararios concert. We had over 6000 guests in a single exhibit hall....Working the front of the stage, we had to watch as the crowd went apes#it...WE ended up pulling little kids out of the crowd and putting them behind the barricade with us as they adults started crushing each other in the frenzy to get closer to the stage....It was chaos....

My point?

Four guys near the front kept trying to start fights, hitting and shoving people.....We had to reach across the baricade and pull the first one out....no sweat....

THe second one, once I grabbed him realized what was going on, and resisted....Took a swing at me so I dove into the crowd after him....The lone white guy in a mass of pissed off hispanics....( For the record, I LOVE hispanic music and culture, this is not intended to be racist...) I spun the guy around and locked his arm behind him, then tossed him over the barricade....He was the same size as me, and actually had a couple pounds on me at least....I never actually hit him beyond a heel-of-hand to the shoulder to spin him, and another one to the kidney to distract him while I locked his arm up......I ended up with a knot on the forehead and a scraped shin....

THe point is not that I'm a tough guy, 'cause I'm not. THe point is, those people that tell you you HAVE to strike as a LEO or security personnel are wrong....If you train hard and realistically you will be able to maintain the higher standard of behavior that the public and the judicial systems expect of you...THe eye gouge/flcik and edge-of-hand to the throat oare good to know for super ugly situations, but are not the bread and butter of what you will do as a LEO...

Just my thought on it.....

RLTW

[Silent Giant]

Given the choices that you've put out there, I'd go with Ju-jitsu and maybe a little boxing.

[William]

I am going to go off on a tangent here and suggest you look into the Filipino Martial Arts. If you are looking to go into Law Enforcement, you want to be proficient with weapons as well as open hand combatives. A good FMA system will teach you to be able to use edged and impact weapons as well as open hand based off the same principles of movement. With due respect to other arts, no other MA is going to teach you how to integrate footwork, body angling, weapon, and open hand mechanics better than FMA. As a LEO you would probably be better concentrating on the Dumog, locking, joint manipulations, disarms, and open hand components. Learning how to "flow" between these is key. Every officer who has come to train with me (and has trained in other arts) have always stated that they wish they had found FMA years ago.

Now, generally, FMA is more combative than a LEO is allowed to be against a perp. You just need to emphasize and train the elements that benefit you profession the most. But, the best way to be ready to deal with edged & impact weapons is knowing how use them offensively as well as counter-offensively.

A quick search on the FMA Database turned up 22 or 23 FMA instructors listed for Ontario, Canada. I'm biased and would recommend you search out a Pekiti-Tirsia instructor (and I've trained other systems).


William

[Szczepankiewicz]

William:

You have not felt the deadliness of my Poison Buddha Palm!

Having consistency between your weapon and empty hand techniques is a beautiful thing. You shouldn't have to switch gears every time the situation changes. Yet another reason to get a foundation in a single art and then crosstrain when you can see the similarities and differences.

NWPTrainer:

What you say makes sense. I should have said: Most Judo does not teach standing locks or anything other than armbars. As Most Judo is prepping for competition and those moves have long since been banned.

Fortuneately there 'are no rules' for my upcoming duel to the death with a certain, unnamed tubby punkass judoka from the Jayhawker State...

[Kensh0]

William:

I checked out that FMA database and found that there is one place in my city that teaches FMA. They teach JKD Concepts/Kali/Arnis De Mano, could you provide any insight into these MA's, I really don't know a whole lot about FMA's and you seem be the resident expert on them. Any help would be appreciated.

Everyone:

I just want to thank you all for taking the time to help this canuck out. You guys have considerably opened my eyes to the uniqueness and diversity of MA's.