Best combination of arts.

[HtTKar]

I was also wondering if anybody had experience in R.A.T. system by Paul Vunak?

If this is effective as many sales pitches state, then this would be the idea mix of martial arts. Refining it down to a couple moves that can work in many different ways, and are easily remembered in high stress situations.

[Tom Yum]

Originally Posted by HtTKar

I wonder if HandtoHand and EmptyneSs are the same person...

possible alliases...

Handyness?
Empty Hand?

[47MartialMan]

I'm sorry, these kind of threads seem to be speculative. Of course a variety of martial arts makes a versitile martial artist. But the combination woul depend on the ability of the teacher and student-not a art for art sake.

[Ethanael]

a grappling art like jujitsu, and something teaching how to strike weak points with the greatest damage. If possible, Jujitsu and Dim Mak.
Sadly, there aren't any Dim Mak schools where I live...

[Garland]

As of now, I have no reason not to believe that so called Dim Mak and Atemi "death strikes" are anything more than tremendous, idealisitic and fantastical bullshit.

Dilman is a fucking fraud...so is anyone else who preaches that shit.
Sure anatomy reveals weaknesses, so take an anatomy class, learn where the major arteries and nerve bundles are located, and learn the structure of bones in the body. Maybe take a massage class to learn the major trigger point places where tension gets built up and start wailing on those in a fight, but a pressure point is not going to drop a guy.

Nailing somebody in the carotid artery with a really ridged ass strike might, so will cracking ribs or hitting under the diaphram to compress the lungs. Hell, even a good low kick could push somebodies patella back, and considering the amount of leverage and the angle, break it all the way through. That is martial anatomy, not...if I poke you in the chest three times and spin counter clockwise for a half an hour you'll die in seven days shit.

[HtTKar]

but a pressure point is not going to drop a guy.

You really have to be kidding. What do you consider a pressure point then?
Do you count the base of the neck, bridge of the nose, temple, behind the ear, neck, windpipe, solar plexus, Kidney, genitals, heart, eyes, hollows under the jaw, or akilles tendon? Have you ever seen how someone acts with a broken tail-bone? What pressure points are you excluding?

Some pressure points are used by grabbing (ex, akilles tendon, genitals), others are from striking (ex, temple), while others are leverage/compression points (ex, choking the neck or manipulating fingers). They're not just little pinches like you see in the movies.

[47MartialMan]

Ok.....this makes a little sense....

Originally Posted by Garland

As of now, I have no reason not to believe that so called Dim Mak and Atemi "death strikes" are anything more than tremendous, idealisitic and fantastical bullshit.
Yeah, and those known are now "common lnowledge"

Dilman is a fucking fraud...so is anyone else who preaches that shit.
Sure anatomy reveals weaknesses, so take an anatomy class, learn where the major arteries and nerve bundles are located, and learn the structure of bones in the body. Maybe take a massage class to learn the major trigger point places where tension gets built up and start wailing on those in a fight, but a pressure point is not going to drop a guy.
I have a interesting tale upon a Dilman seminar I had attended...

Nailing somebody in the carotid artery with a really ridged ass strike might, so will cracking ribs or hitting under the diaphram to compress the lungs. Hell, even a good low kick could push somebodies patella back, and considering the amount of leverage and the angle, break it all the way through. That is martial anatomy, not...if I poke you in the chest three times and spin counter clockwise for a half an hour you'll die in seven days shit.
Well given the medical knoweldge and the staff or physicains that were scarce back then.....then if someone was struck hard and medical attention was not readily available....I guess it would seem fascinating on how someone had dies and legends are thus created...

[Garland]

Originally Posted by HtTKar

You really have to be kidding. What do you consider a pressure point then?
Do you count the base of the neck, bridge of the nose, temple, behind the ear, neck, windpipe, solar plexus, Kidney, genitals, heart, eyes, hollows under the jaw, or akilles tendon? Have you ever seen how someone acts with a broken tail-bone? What pressure points are you excluding?

Some pressure points are used by grabbing (ex, akilles tendon, genitals), others are from striking (ex, temple), while others are leverage/compression points (ex, choking the neck or manipulating fingers). They're not just little pinches like you see in the movies.

There are, naturally, weaknesses in the human anatomy. Did you even read my post? I say pick up Gray's Anatomy...instead of buying into the mysticism crap. Yes, if you kick somebody on the inside of the thigh you can **** up the sciatic nerve and make it so they have trouble walking, you can stomp or knee the coccyx to try and break it from the rest of the sacrum, you can hit somebody in the genitals or perineal to **** them up, solar plexus to make them lose their wind or maybe stop their heart if they're at a predisposition to that type of shit...a strike to the temple is actually a misconception, and the skull is actually a little thicker around there. You can, if you have a really good grip, rupture the brachial artery, and you can seperate small muscle groups with your fingers. These are not "pressure points", but rather realisitc vital targets and methods. Simple shit, like if I pop you in the nose, it will start to bleed and your eyes will most likely water up, or if you hit somebody the right way in the chin or on the side of their jaw you can get a flash knock out. It's all kinesiology and anatomy, baby...not let me interrupt your chi from 3 feet, or push my thumb to your meridian and while you pummel me with haymakers.
These things I promote are realistic...poking somebody in the chest with two fingers and having them die in three days or pushing the air around their body and causing them to feint...i.e. Dillman's so-called no-touch knock outs, are complete bollocks, and should be regarded with the utmost distain.

Aigh't... did I clear that up...vital targets which provisionally accepted medical and anatomical fields, as well as most legit martial arts, combatives, and combat sports, not hokey "pressure point" ass mubo jumbo.

[Garland]

Oh, and let's hear about this Dilman seminar...
and what you didn't understand about my post..
I'd be happy to defend my statements.

[HtTKar]

Dim Mak, formally known only as Tai chi ch'uan is basically "Ultimate boxing"
It was Wudang-style boxing which was a little different (more internal) than shoalin boxing.

It is just pressure point striking.

White eyebrow, Eagle Claw, Praying Mantis, Choy Li Fut, among others all teach Dim Mak. Since it is Chinese origin, they teach the pressure points along the 12 meridians. They develope their hands and fingers to deliver strikes. They have a different medical science than western science, so it is taught a little different.

But it is still just Kung Fu. Kung Fu has a way of making everything much more mystical than it really is. If you know anatamy/physiology/martial arts, and have some common sense, there is nothing mystical about pressure point fighting. Not many people are privy to all that information. Being Kung Fu, there are a lot of spiritual aspects added.

It wasnt even that long ago that books were printed. Prior to the information age all information was handed down verbally. If you spend your whole life growing rice and barely see people from a different village, a new fighting style could I guess seem very mystical. As the tales were handed down through generations, I'm sure they elaborated to make better stories.

I dont know who Dilman is, but if he made things up it was probably just to make it more saleable.

So when you say

I have no reason not to believe that so called Dim Mak...(is)anything more than tremendous, idealisitic and fantastical bullshit.

I was confused, as Dim Mak is just a type of boxing that focuses on pressure points using 4 basic strikes; Phoenix Eye Fist, Crane Beak, Arrow Finger and Leopard Fist.

[Jeremy Lobdell]

Here is some FACTUAL information on George Dillman.
George A. Dillman is a 9th degree black belt in Ryukyu Kempo Tomarite. He was named as Black Belt Magazine's 1997 Instructor of the Year. He is the only person known to have trained both Bruce Lee and Muhammad Ali. He was a 4 time National Karate Champion ( 1969-1972 ) and claimed a total of 327 trophies during his 9 year competitive career. Dillman has appeared on 35 National TV shows and has been featured 5 times on Ripley's Believe It or Not.
Dillman is the chief instructor for Dillman Karate International, an organization of over 85 schools worldwide with an enrollment of nearly 15,000 students. He has studied under five 10th degree black belts from Okinawa and spent almost 20 years doing joint seminars with Professor Wally Jay ( Small Circle Jujitsu) and Professor Remy Presas ( Modern Arnis).
Dillman does not teach Dim Mak. That name is taken from Chinese Arts. He teaches Kyusho-Jitsu and Tuite-Jitsu.

Garland- You train at the Kalista Academy, don't you? It's to bad that you haven't learned the respect and openmindenss that is so prevalent there and is a part of all the organizations that they represent. Obviously Dillman's kind of training isn't your cup of tea. Resorting to calling someone a "Fraud" is your opinion, and you are entitled to it. Obviously that opinion is not fact, and is not shared by the majority of people in the ma world. You are also wrong in some of your other statements. Atemi waza is warning strikes to the limbs. It's operating under the princiles of nearest weapon, nearest target. What Dillman seminars have you been to? Where are you getting your info. from? This sounds more like a personal attack. What's your motovation. It must be a real comfort to you to hide in anonimity and bad mouth someone who Black Belt Magazine says "has probably done more for traditional Martial arts than anyone else alive". This is probably part of the reason why, when BB Magazine did a cover story on the 30th aniversary of Bruce Lee's death, George Dillman was 1 of only 3 people to be interviewed.
I've tried to stick to the facts and not post inacurate or biased info. Anyone interested in more should check out www.dillman.com
Mahalo, Jeremy

[47MartialMan]

Originally Posted by Garland

Oh, and let's hear about this Dilman seminar...
and what you didn't understand about my post..
I'd be happy to defend my statements.

No mis-understanding......how do you defend your statements....give more deatils...do you have a story?

[47MartialMan]

Where are you getting this?

Originally Posted by HtTKar

Dim Mak, formally known only as Tai chi ch'uan is basically "Ultimate boxing"
WTF???

It was Wudang-style boxing which was a little different (more internal) than shoalin boxing.
WTF???

It is just pressure point striking.

White eyebrow, Eagle Claw, Praying Mantis, Choy Li Fut, among others all teach Dim Mak. Since it is Chinese origin, they teach the pressure points along the 12 meridians. They develope their hands and fingers to deliver strikes. They have a different medical science than western science, so it is taught a little different.
More than 12 Meridians....

But it is still just Kung Fu. Kung Fu has a way of making everything much more mystical than it really is. If you know anatamy/physiology/martial arts, and have some common sense, there is nothing mystical about pressure point fighting. Not many people are privy to all that information. Being Kung Fu, there are a lot of spiritual aspects added.
WTF???

It wasnt even that long ago that books were printed. Prior to the information age all information was handed down verbally. If you spend your whole life growing rice and barely see people from a different village, a new fighting style could I guess seem very mystical. As the tales were handed down through generations, I'm sure they elaborated to make better stories.
The only thing that makes sense to me.

I dont know who Dilman is, but if he made things up it was probably just to make it more saleable.
Yes....no different than "today's Shaolin and Shaolin Monks"

So when you say
I was confused, as Dim Mak is just a type of boxing that focuses on pressure points using 4 basic strikes; Phoenix Eye Fist, Crane Beak, Arrow Finger and Leopard Fist.
WTF???

[47MartialMan]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Lobdell

Here is some FACTUAL information on George Dillman.
George A. Dillman is a 9th degree black belt in Ryukyu Kempo Tomarite. He was named as Black Belt Magazine's 1997 Instructor of the Year. He is the only person known to have trained both Bruce Lee and Muhammad Ali. He was a 4 time National Karate Champion ( 1969-1972 ) and claimed a total of 327 trophies during his 9 year competitive career. Dillman has appeared on 35 National TV shows and has been featured 5 times on Ripley's Believe It or Not.
Dillman is the chief instructor for Dillman Karate International, an organization of over 85 schools worldwide with an enrollment of nearly 15,000 students. He has studied under five 10th degree black belts from Okinawa and spent almost 20 years doing joint seminars with Professor Wally Jay ( Small Circle Jujitsu) and Professor Remy Presas ( Modern Arnis).
Dillman does not teach Dim Mak. That name is taken from Chinese Arts. He teaches Kyusho-Jitsu and Tuite-Jitsu.

Garland- You train at the Kalista Academy, don't you? It's to bad that you haven't learned the respect and openmindenss that is so prevalent there and is a part of all the organizations that they represent. Obviously Dillman's kind of training isn't your cup of tea. Resorting to calling someone a "Fraud" is your opinion, and you are entitled to it. Obviously that opinion is not fact, and is not shared by the majority of people in the ma world. You are also wrong in some of your other statements. Atemi waza is warning strikes to the limbs. It's operating under the princiles of nearest weapon, nearest target. What Dillman seminars have you been to? Where are you getting your info. from? This sounds more like a personal attack. What's your motovation. It must be a real comfort to you to hide in anonimity and bad mouth someone who Black Belt Magazine says "has probably done more for traditional Martial arts than anyone else alive". This is probably part of the reason why, when BB Magazine did a cover story on the 30th aniversary of Bruce Lee's death, George Dillman was 1 of only 3 people to be interviewed.
I've tried to stick to the facts and not post inacurate or biased info. Anyone interested in more should check out www.dillman.com
Mahalo, Jeremy

Genuflect to ye Dildoman!

[Jeremy Lobdell]

Originally Posted by 47MartialMan

Genuflect to ye Dildoman!

I guess I have to chalk this up to another pearl of wisdom coming from you. Sounds right on par with all your other posts.