Best combination of arts.

[Garland]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Lobdell

Garland- You train at the Kalista Academy, don't you? It's to bad that you haven't learned the respect and openmindenss that is so prevalent there and is a part of all the organizations that they represent. Obviously Dillman's kind of training isn't your cup of tea. Resorting to calling someone a "Fraud" is your opinion, and you are entitled to it. Obviously that opinion is not fact, and is not shared by the majority of people in the ma world. You are also wrong in some of your other statements. Atemi waza is warning strikes to the limbs. It's operating under the princiles of nearest weapon, nearest target. What Dillman seminars have you been to? Where are you getting your info. from? This sounds more like a personal attack. What's your motovation. It must be a real comfort to you to hide in anonimity and bad mouth someone who Black Belt Magazine says "has probably done more for traditional Martial arts than anyone else alive". This is probably part of the reason why, when BB Magazine did a cover story on the 30th aniversary of Bruce Lee's death, George Dillman was 1 of only 3 people to be interviewed.
I've tried to stick to the facts and not post inacurate or biased info. Anyone interested in more should check out www.dillman.com
Mahalo, Jeremy

Jeremy,
I never intended any of my statements to be construed as a personal attack on you or one of the styles you train. I guess I did go a little overboard with my criticism of Dillman, however, all of the no-touch knock-outs and things of that ilk tend to seem, well, a little far fetched. (honestly, Jeremy, can you blame me?)
If you would like to explain how it works in conventional terms that correlate with logic and medical science, I would gladly retract all of my remarks.
Also, I never try to hide who I am...why would I use my real name, enough so that you obviously recognise who I am from an internet post?
Jeremy...I understand where you're coming from, honestly, I do, but is it so hard to see where I'm coming from???
Also my opinions and what I say should not be affiliated with my instructors or my school, certainly I have my own opinions (I have no idea what Khru's thoughts on the issue are because I've never asked him), and I should be able to voice them in this open forum without being reamed, and nothing I say here should reflect upon anyone who trained me...I have nothing but respect and a whole lot of love for all of the Kalista family and it's lineage, and I am probably a great deal more open minded about my training and my entire lifestyle than the vast majority of people on this web forum, I just have a problem with all of this mysticism stuff, because, quite simply, it doesn't seem real...and according to your link, I guess Mr. Dillman himself thought it was b.s. in the beginning. (I'll believe it when (or rather if) I see it.)
I always have the right to cynicism and skepticism, and these are good things to have, especially in the martial arts community, to seperate the wheat from the chaff.

Much respect (certainly, no disrespect intended, I was just posting my opinion, which is in no way FACT)
Garland Hummel

[Jeremy Lobdell]

Thank you, Garland, for your very intelligent and well thought out post. I would first like to start by saying that I understand your skepticism. I was the exact same way and still am about certain aspects of the whole pressure point-dim mak thing. Somehow Dillman's name is always brought into that, but it's not what he does. I would also like to say that I understand that your particular views are yours and yours alone. I know that you don't speak for your instructor or school anymore than I do for my instructor or school.
I am not a member of Dillman's organization, but had the opportunity to train in a school in Arizona that teaches Ryukyu Kempo, along with the grappling and FMA that I was a part of. I'm not a karate guy. I train in Thai boxing, FMA, and grappling, but have found that I've been able to use many of Dillman's ideas in these arts successfully against an opponent that's fighting in a more modern and realistic way.
Dillmans entire pressure point thing is based entirely on the Chinese acupuncture system. Things like points, meridians, affected organs, and the duration cycle are all part of chinese medicine. Many of the high level practitioners in his system have gone on to become doctors in chinese medicine, Song Pak in Alaska, Ed Lake in Las Vegas, and Ron Baddorf in Arizona to name a few. I also know traditional doctors, chiropractors, lawyers, and educated people from all walks of life that are students of his. He has also had studies done at major Universities under the supervision and control of neurologists who have been able to monitor and record the interruption in the electro-chemical signals going to and from the brain, the most recent at the University of Minnesota in 1997 by Dr. Chas Terry.
Pressure points are not the end all and be all of self defense, but are a very valid and good part that can be added to your arsenil to make it more effective. If I (or anyone else) thought that they could criple, maim or kill someone by just poking them, there wouldn't be any reason to train at all. Obviously that's not the case.
You are completely entitled to skepicism. I just took offense to you calling Dillman a fraud, nothing else. Most of the ma community was skeptical of Thai boxing, bjj and fma at one time. Now it seems like it's karate and Kung Fu's turn to be the butt of all the jokes.
Good luck in your training and I hope you continue your success ( and undefeated streak) in the ring.
Mahalo, Jeremy

[Tom Yum]

Sorry to steal the thread...

I was remembering the time that the MA community was skeptical of muay thai, grappling and FMA.

In th early 90's many American kickboxers/karateka said that it didn't take much skill to throw leg kicks. They also thought that the thai kick wasn't much different than the karate roundhouse . There were several exhibition matches between some top American kickboxers and muay thai fighters.

I used to have a tape of Rick Roufous (from full contact karate days) vs. Kiatsongrit. The rules were heavily modified, clinching/kneeing/elbowing were not allowed, but low kicks were. Roufous was unprepaired for Thai style kicking and power and got hurt pretty badly. I think Mike Miles's site has a clip from it www.mikemiles.com

Grappling too. I remember when the Gracie challenge was something that your instructors talked about with a little fear and admiration. There was even an old article published by the guys at "MA Training" showing masters of several styles trying to defend the shoot.

The masters included: He Il Cho (TKD), Randy Williams (WC), Kenneth Funakoshi (shotokan), Duane Ludwig (Muay thai) and some ninjitsu guy. The defenses looked interesting on paper.

It wasn't until 10th dan Kempo Master Ron Van Clief stepped up and fought Gracie in the UFC that we saw how legit these defenses were. Van Clief had heart and 40 years experience. On top of that, he was ripped for a guy his age. The match lasted about 5 minutes, with Gracie tapping the master out.

Man, the 90's were some great times for styles to prove themselves. In the first few UFCs, you could punch, kick, knee, elbow, headbut and grapple. How many traditional MA guys would be willing to compete with those rules? To be honest, it was scary then.

[47MartialMan]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Lobdell

I guess I have to chalk this up to another pearl of wisdom coming from you. Sounds right on par with all your other posts.

OK- I had that coming to me. It is that everything or anyone becomes so over-hyped, with much opposite opinions and info, that it can become hard for one to distinguish fact from false. I have attended a couple of Dillman's seminars and I am skeptical. This skepticism results from events and situations from those seminars. If Mr Dillman is your teacher, or you have a liking to his methods, or know him personally, I humbly apologize for insult.

[RYO9]

it's all about combining Kali/escrima/arnis/silat with BJJ or CSW.

Mullins

[Mephariel]

I personally think this system is very complete:

Muay Thai + San Shou + Wrestling + BJJ

You have everything covered.

Muay Thai will give you strong strikes with all parts of your body.

San Shou gives you side kicks and most importantly, clinching of the limbs for takedowns.

Wrestling will give you body grappling and takedowns and submissions.

BJJ will give you a complete groundfighting arsenals that you can use with wrestling.

This is a very complete system imo.

Strikes? Check
Neck Clinching? Check
Limb Clinching? Check
Body Takedown? Check
Submissions? Check
Guard positions and mount positions? Check

[47MartialMan]

Originally Posted by Mephariel

I personally think this system is very complete:

Muay Thai + San Shou + Wrestling + BJJ

You have everything covered.

Muay Thai will give you strong strikes with all parts of your body.

San Shou gives you side kicks and most importantly, clinching of the limbs for takedowns.

Wrestling will give you body grappling and takedowns and submissions.

BJJ will give you a complete groundfighting arsenals that you can use with wrestling.

This is a very complete system imo.

Strikes? Check
Neck Clinching? Check
Limb Clinching? Check
Body Takedown? Check
Submissions? Check
Guard positions and mount positions? Check

A lot of time a money....write a big CHECK