Meaning of a 'Black Belt'

[Nit]

Just found a quote from Geoff's (Thompson) site that I find I agree with a lot... kinda like a description of the Samurai Spirit

Here it is:

Does acquiring a Black Belt really mean that you are an expert in fighting? If not, what does it mean?

It doesn't automatically mean that you can have a fight. What it does mean is that you have reached the level of proficiency set out by the system that you are a part of. If it is a blood and snot system then it usually means you have developed an ability to handle the physical side of combat. If you are in an aesthetic system it probably means no such thing. Again it comes down to why you are there in the first place. You might not care about the self-defence side of it, on the other hand that might be very important to you. If it is and there is no fear in the training, if there is restrictions in what range you are allowed to fight at and if there is no contact or no randori then it is unlikely to work in a live situation. To me the Dan grade means nothing more than a level of proficiency attained. When I was a younger man setting out in the martial arts the coveted black belt meant everything to me, I felt that when I was a brown belt or a black belt I would be invincible. Off course when you get there you realise that no one is invincible and that getting to the top rung of the black belt ladder just places you on the bottom rung of another ladder. There is always another precipice to be reached. By the time you really are capable you don't want to hurt any one any way, so you spend most of your time walking away from violence and letting people off. When you can do it, and I mean really do it, when you have the ability to kill another human being there is not a single part of you that actually wants to do it. That is the level we should all aspire to. The great Don Dragae said that we should become so proficient at out art that we can kill, then we can transcend the need to do so. When we have attained this level - very few people ever do - people are safer because of our presence. If you find your self on a bus or in a room full of people they should be safer because we are there, even if they do not know who we are. Safer because we can protect them against bullies, and also because we have the self control to allow them t take liberties, as some uninitiated people do, and let them off, not hurt them. There is a responsibility that comes with skill, we have a platform and a knowledge that others do not share, or indeed even understand. We must develop the self-control not to abuse this position. Training in a real, forge system will give us this, but it will take many years.

[adacas]

I like the way Mr. Miagi said it in Karate Kid.
"Belts are for holding up your pants."

[Kosh]

I study Hapkido and just got my black belt. To me the Black belt, in Hapkido, doesnt mean that you have mastered anything...rather you know enough to begin mastering what you are learning. I see the black belt as an initiation more than anything else.

[Sean Dempsey]

depends on the art.

TKD black belts take what, 2 years?

BJJ black belts take what... 15 years... IF you ever get it. ESPECIALLY if you go to get it from a real Gracie. Most people who train BJJ never get black belts.

This thread is giving me deja vu

[eXcessiveForce]

that is interesting.

if most people never get black belts then what does that say about the training they are recieving.

people are considered masters after about 10 years worth of work on a subject. Music, art, and such.

15 years to blackbelt???

seems like a way to get a bunch of money out of people.

[cakegirl]

At my karate school, each belt has 4 aspects of syllabus. When you can do all of those 4 with acceptable proficiency, you get your next belt. So when you go for your black belt, you are basically tested on the entire syllabus - the 4 blocks of syllabus you learned on white belt, the 4 you learned on green belt, etc, all they way to the last 4 you learned on your brown belt. So there's no mystical zen mountain to climb - there's just syllabus to learn and remember.

Cakegirl

[Szczepankiewicz]

Most people who train BJJ never get black belts.

As XF said...who can afford it?

[chris davis 200]

To me black belt means that you have mastered the basics and are now able to begin to understand the principles of an art and the more advanced techniques and theories.

God knows how many first and second dan instructors there are around with virtually no knowledge. I partially blame the obsession with rank for the degeneration of the quality in the martial arts. Some people get a 3rd dan and think they are masters, they think they have the ability to change and modify the art, to create what they think is better etc etc. clearly they do not have that ability - as many many of these 'home made' schools churn out rubbish.

I also think that the black belt system is over relied on. Of the systems i practice only Daito ryu has a Belt system, but also retains traditional certification.

Ba gua, Tai Chi and hsing I rarely have a belt or sash system. they are not really relavant to learning.

Jigaro Kano created the Belt system when he created Judo. The main purpose was to establish a recognition of skill for training/sparring purposes etc, then everyone adopted it becasue the system made sense.

Before the belt system, licences and certificates were given. not quite such a visible system of reconition.

Now i think it is too visible. with people relying on what is around their waist rather than whats in their mind.

A belt only covers two inches of your ass, the rest is down to you! (cant remember who said that - one of the gracies i think )

cheers
Chris

[Nit]

Lots of relevant and interesting posts here.

personally I don't care what colour belt is on my waist, as long as it keeps my dignity then its fine... I have spoken to people before about starting a new art and they all go on about how its rubbish I cant take my belt with me... but I really don't care I'd rather learn the art then not because of a piece of cloth... or metal if your a Ninja