Striking Before Locking/leveraging

Keeper · 10-25-2003, 05:43 AM

Hi Guys

I'm sure this subject has come up before, but I was wondering what people's thoughts and more importantly experiences are with virticle gappling situations.

I was always taught to strike before attempting a leverage or armbar, to loosen the guy up - baring in mind that if somebody is grabbing you with intent to hurt or kill you, they will be using one hell of an adrenalized grip!
I also know from experience (play fighting and training in the gym) that it is very difficult to pull-off without striking.

So... what are other people's experiences? Anybody been in a 'live' situation where they had to lever and arm? Does anybody feel they can lock and lever without striking?

Thanks a lot for your replies

Keeper

IPON · 10-25-2003, 07:07 AM

I actuallty think you raise a good point reagrding the reality of any locks. If you can sink it in there is no defense but its not easy to get. I have had experience with the arm bar as a first move and set-up. Generally You would want to set-up the move meaning the softening the opponent with strikes or kicks to distract or unbalace and then apply if appropriate.

When I have used the armbar as a first move was usually a warning move. I am a Bouncer but aslo outside of work. But these situations I would not say I was in "danger" but it can de escalate a fight and has for me. Usually with the standing armbar, I want the oppnent on the ground. So they are unbalanced and leaning I take the arm and force down so they are on the ground, (OK maybe this is a modified arm bar). I would prefer not to have the other guy standing if possible.

Anyway that's my 2cents

Apoth · 10-25-2003, 10:47 AM

Admittedly I've never used an armbar/lock in a real life situation, but I too was taught to strike first. I think for the most part that's a good idea just because it takes the opponents mind off of the limb you're about to control.

In theory, I suppose if you're fast you could do it without needing any strikes. The real issue, I would think, is if the opponent saw the attack coming, but if you're fast enough that would be a non-issue.

jaykay · 10-25-2003, 08:19 PM

Vertical grappling?

I really don't do much stand up grappling, I tend to strike then. I do think that when you're fighting someone of a decent ability or strength you can't just launch into an arm bar expecting to get it, you have to set it up beforehand either with strikes or a submission combination.

That's from the mat, not the street - I haven't had a street fight in years.

grubbogoppoly · 10-25-2003, 09:44 PM

Jay. .Wouldn't that be true with almost everything?

jaykay · 10-25-2003, 10:43 PM

That you have to set almost anything up? Yeah I think it is. I used the arm bar as an example.

10-25-2003, 05:43 AM	#1 (permalink)
Keeper Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: England Posts: 74	Striking Before Locking/leveraging Hi Guys I'm sure this subject has come up before, but I was wondering what people's thoughts and more importantly experiences are with virticle gappling situations. I was always taught to strike before attempting a leverage or armbar, to loosen the guy up - baring in mind that if somebody is grabbing you with intent to hurt or kill you, they will be using one hell of an adrenalized grip! I also know from experience (play fighting and training in the gym) that it is very difficult to pull-off without striking. So... what are other people's experiences? Anybody been in a 'live' situation where they had to lever and arm? Does anybody feel they can lock and lever without striking? Thanks a lot for your replies Keeper __________________ Find Your Path in Life and Walk it Let Challenge be Your Teacher The Hard Way is The Best Way

10-25-2003, 07:07 AM	#2 (permalink)
IPON Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: NYC Posts: 1,563	I actuallty think you raise a good point reagrding the reality of any locks. If you can sink it in there is no defense but its not easy to get. I have had experience with the arm bar as a first move and set-up. Generally You would want to set-up the move meaning the softening the opponent with strikes or kicks to distract or unbalace and then apply if appropriate. When I have used the armbar as a first move was usually a warning move. I am a Bouncer but aslo outside of work. But these situations I would not say I was in "danger" but it can de escalate a fight and has for me. Usually with the standing armbar, I want the oppnent on the ground. So they are unbalanced and leaning I take the arm and force down so they are on the ground, (OK maybe this is a modified arm bar). I would prefer not to have the other guy standing if possible. Anyway that's my 2cents __________________ A person who is said to be proficient in the arts is like a fool. Because of his foolishness in concerning himself with just one thing, he thinks of nothing else and thus becomes proficient. - Hagarkure

10-25-2003, 09:44 PM	#5 (permalink)
grubbogoppoly Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 283	Jay. .Wouldn't that be true with almost everything? __________________ I apologize for anything I am, will, or have said that will or may offend you. I take no responsibility for my words/actions and will not be punished.

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10-25-2003, 10:47 AM	#3 (permalink)
Apoth Novice Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 38	Admittedly I've never used an armbar/lock in a real life situation, but I too was taught to strike first. I think for the most part that's a good idea just because it takes the opponents mind off of the limb you're about to control. In theory, I suppose if you're fast you could do it without needing any strikes. The real issue, I would think, is if the opponent saw the attack coming, but if you're fast enough that would be a non-issue.

10-25-2003, 08:19 PM	#4 (permalink)
jaykay Novice Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 39	Vertical grappling? I really don't do much stand up grappling, I tend to strike then. I do think that when you're fighting someone of a decent ability or strength you can't just launch into an arm bar expecting to get it, you have to set it up beforehand either with strikes or a submission combination. That's from the mat, not the street - I haven't had a street fight in years.

10-25-2003, 10:43 PM	#6 (permalink)
jaykay Novice Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 39	That you have to set almost anything up? Yeah I think it is. I used the arm bar as an example.

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