Machado or Gracie Ju Jitsu????

[Sean Dempsey]

Also it seems that there is bad blood between these families..do you or anyone else have any information about that, just curious.

Helio developed what is know as Gracie Jiu Jitsu. Esai Maeda taught Carlos the Japanese Jiu Jitsu style.

Helio, being small and with vertigo, took that style that Carlos has learned and adapted it to what is known as Gracie/Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. What Carlos was taught by Maeda and what he had trained was regular Japanese Jiu Jitsu. Helio totally reinvented it and made it Brazilian, the thing you know today.

Carlos then learned the Brazilian style from Helio, and the families have been split. None of the othe guys have ever been as superior as Helio's sons. I am not talking MMA here, I am talking strict Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.

But make no mistake - Helio developed Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, not Carlos.

[papa]

Originally posted by Toudiyama[NL]
wouldn't it be nice to first start at machado, get a lot of training there and then switch to Renzo's place?
I mean is interesting as a beginner to train with Renzo?

Toudiyama mad a good point. If it was an all or nothing decision i think it would be wiser to go to machado and take advantage of the price and oppurtunity to go to unlimited classes and eventually transfer to renzo's gym.

And if i what i heard is correct i believe that Master K (a world renown Muay Thai fighters) has a fantastic muay thai program there.

Well where im going with this is, you can take advantage of the classes at machados, then eventually go to renzo and learn two forms of Jiu-Jitsu and become a more well rounded fighter, and maybe pick up some muay thai. ;D


-papa-

[Hakoko]

IPON, there is no difference between the two. I mean the Machado's are cousins of the Gracie's from Carlos' side. I have seen pictures of all of them together when they were younger. I believe Rorian brought Rigan and Carlos to the U.S. to help teach (I believe). No difference as far as I'm concerned. Make a list of the pros and cons of each school and decide from there. The only reason why I would choose Renzo is because of his track record, and the top names of Gracie Barra coming to train there. On the other hand Marcos is cheaper, you basically get the same art, and hopefully the Machado's and their top guys make it over to the East Coast.

[JaredExtreme]

Unlimited classes per week is a big incentive, and Machados definetely don't just hand out black belts. Renzo is of course one of the elite BJJ practioners, but with unlimited classes a week you'll be able to learn a lot more than just 2 times a week.

[NHBMARK1]

I say screw them both & find a Straightblast gym.

[IPON]

Hey Sean Thanks!! Do you no the reason for the split (ego sibling rivalry) Did Carlos just not like getting beaten by his younger brother?? Or was there an debate of technique.

[jules]

Ipon,
The Machados studied under the Gracies in Gracie Barra. They are family and basically studied the same art. Any difference in their styles would be personal; remember BJJ is a personal style and no two instructors will teach it the same way. Heck even the Machado brothers have different body types and styles.

Do you no the reason for the split

It's basically about money from both sides. They both want their father to be considered the "innovator" so they can charge people more money and have the upper hand in the "BJJ market". This break IMHO is the reason why the newer generations of Gracie fighters are not as strong as their parents. They Gracies stoped training with each other. Think how nasty a fighter would be if he trained with Rickson, Royce, Helio, Carlson Jr, Renzo, and the Machados? THey are shooting themselves in the foot with all this petty greed.

[crouton]

i would go with machado. i know marcos santos and hes a great guy. i havent trained with him but from what ive seen and heard are all good things. like what the others said, get a good amount of training in and if then you still want to train with a gracie switch over.

[FUH-Q]

umm, first, i train under a machado and he talks often about the gracies in a good way. he talks of them as family and has never said anything negative about any gracie.

second, as a beginner i would go with wherever you can get the most mat time. the fact is as a beginner you need mat time, not instruction from renzo.

[Sean Dempsey]

Do you no the reason for the split (ego sibling rivalry) Did Carlos just not like getting beaten by his younger brother?? Or was there an debate of technique.

We'd have to ask Carlos to know the real reason, but the apparant one is that Helio was an ultra tech-dog, focused on extreme technicality and the lack of using strength (since Helio had no strength to use...), and Carlos was more concerned with competition style BJJ, more gnp and aggressive style, since he was much much more of an athlete. It got more and more diversified, to where Helio's faction was concerned with the self defense aspect and strict technicality of BJJ, and Carlos's faction became more and more involved into competition style and gnp and such.

I am a Helio follower. Helio taught Rickson/Pedro, Rickson taught Pedro, and I train under him. People can argue or say whatever they want, but the people who are Gracie students and practice the traditional Gracie style will understand the difference between traditional Gracie (learning from Rickson, Renzo, Pedro...), and then all the BJJ offshoots (bahra, behring, machado, bayless..).

[IPON]

Hey Sean and Jules thanks alot!! I know I didn't post the original question, but you guys are making this clearer for me. and I didn't know the Helio suffered from vertigo.

Sean last question (only out of curiosity) - beyond the fact that Renzo is a badass in the MMA arena, do you think there is a difference in what he is teaching as BJJ and MJJ. Or do you think that Renzo is a BB on the Carlos lineage he has learned (or unlearned) from the Helio lineage. really, I am not overintellectalizing the fine differences between the 2 just curious.

[jules]

Sean,
Some of the Machado brothers learned under Rickson.... Besides most of the teacing in Gracie Bara was done by Helio because he was the youngest Gracie.

[Hakoko]

Actually, the Machado's learned under Crolin, Rolls, and Carlos Jr. at Gracie Barra. Helio's school is now called Gracie Humaita where Royler and Rolker teach.

[IPON]

Here is the link I got my info from


http://bjj.org/a/people/gracie-carlos-sr.html


everyone is giving great info thanks

[bjjrookie]

Undecided,

If you are a beginner, just go to the Machado school. Smaller classes are better if you're just starting out.