Machado or Gracie Ju Jitsu????

[Mr. Miyagi]

You can't go wrong with either school. Think about the other things: cost, perks, unlimited?, class size, your schedule, location, and so on.
I have trained a tiny bit in the Gracie style and a lot in the Machado style and have to say that the biggest differences exist in the early white belt levels. It's not much different and as you advance you will learn basically the same things from both schools. The Gracies, most of them at least, tend to emphasize vale tudo and self defense a bit more than the Machados. The Machados are very sport juijitsu oriented.
One good thing about Renzo's school is that, in addition to Renzo himself who is a world class fighter and grappler, he has so many very advanced students who also teach and help out. He has some satelite schools taught by guys who got black belts from him scattered throughout the northeast.
But really, both schools are very very good.

The Machados are as close to the source of Brazilian juijitsu as the Gracies. If you're just a white belt or a blue belt, both parties could teach you a lot. They could probably still teach you a lot no matter who you are, but I guess if you're really advanced it's a matter of personal preference. I prefer sport juijitsu. I like training with the gi and don't want to hear about vale tudo or self defense, but that's just me.

[FUH-Q]

sean,
renzo trained with the machado brothers, i mean they learned from the same teachers. they are cousins and from what i understand used to go out and party together in brazil.make no mistake about it, the machados are NOT a gracie spin off, they are just as qualified as any gracie. its all in your teaching preference as to which teacher you choose.

me personally would train at the machado place, not because of the name but because you will get more mat time and its cheaper. im not familiar with renzos teaching methods but i doubt you will actually get much time with him as a white belt; however that could be a false assumption.

[jules]

Originally posted by Hakoko
Actually, the Machado's learned under Crolin, Rolls, and Carlos Jr. at Gracie Barra. Helio's school is now called Gracie Humaita where Royler and Rolker teach.

In an iterview (i can't remeber the url) some of the younger Machados said they were trained by Rickson also. Besides, Rolls was one of the people who taught Rickson.

[jules]

About the "Carson Gracie style" Vs. "Helio Gracie style"; I would say that in modern MMA matches Carlson Jr. Mario Sperry style would be a better fit than the Helio Gracie style of BJJ.

[Great Sage]

Originally posted by Sean Dempsey
Helio developed what is know as Gracie Jiu Jitsu. Esai Maeda taught Carlos the Japanese Jiu Jitsu style.

Helio, being small and with vertigo, took that style that Carlos has learned and adapted it to what is known as Gracie/Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. What Carlos was taught by Maeda and what he had trained was regular Japanese Jiu Jitsu. Helio totally reinvented it and made it Brazilian, the thing you know today.

Carlos then learned the Brazilian style from Helio, and the families have been split. None of the othe guys have ever been as superior as Helio's sons. I am not talking MMA here, I am talking strict Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.

But make no mistake - Helio developed Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, not Carlos.

According to Renzo Gracie’s book and other BJJ texts, Maeda DID NOT teach traditional Jiu Jitsu. My personal feeling based on research is that Helio Gracie didn’t exactly create a “new” style of Jiu Jitsu, he merely elaborated on Maeda’s direction. It was Maeda who felt that a smaller man could dominate a larger person by taking him to the ground and therefore taught many positions from the ground.

If you talk to ANY of the Gracies, including Helio, he’ll tell you that Maeda used submissions from various styles of grappling arts. In other words, Maeda was an ecclectic martial artist studying such arts as western boxing, catch wrestling, etc... When the Gracies say that they refined the techniques, I think they actually decided to focus on the ground techniques taught by Maeda and then called it “Gracie Jiu Jitsu” after many years of tweaking techniques here and there.

[Undecided]

Thanks everybody. All your posts have been a big help. It looks like which ever school I go to I'll get some excellent training. I am going to watch a couple of beginner classes at both schools to see how the instructors interact with the beginners. I have absolutely no background in any type of grappling so student/instrutor interaction will be important.

For those of you who study BJJ, can you describe a typical class in your school?

[gregimotis]

Very generally, we do it this way:

1) Warm-ups and excersizes

2)learn a single technique and practice it some (for instance a take-down)

3)learn another technique which might logically occur after the first one and practice them together

4)repeat '3' until we have a set of four or five moves put together

5)Class usually wraps up with some rolling - sometimes we start standing, sometimes kneeling (less injuries that way), sometimes we start from particular positions (like one guy in guard).

[Sean Dempsey]

For those of you who study BJJ, can you describe a typical class in your school?

First hour: PT - extreme conditioning. couple hundred pushups, situps, bear crawls. doing "trees" where you stand like a scarecrow and a guy climbs around you. We'll run laps giving piggy-back rides, we'll do the bear crawl with a guy on your back. Lots of weird natural gymnastics and crazy PT stuff.

Second hour: usually 2 or 3 moves. Drill drill drill drill drill.

Hour 3: Rolling. Usually in teams or just open roll.

[Mr. Heel Hook]

Originally posted by Sean Dempsey


First hour: PT - extreme conditioning. couple hundred pushups, situps, bear crawls. doing "trees" where you stand like a scarecrow and a guy climbs around you. We'll run laps giving piggy-back rides, we'll do the bear crawl with a guy on your back. Lots of weird natural gymnastics and crazy PT stuff.

Second hour: usually 2 or 3 moves. Drill drill drill drill drill.

Hour 3: Rolling. Usually in teams or just open roll.

Wow, you must be like... a war machine. Or perhaps, a machine made for war...


The hell is a bear crawl?

[Sean Dempsey]

The whole purpose of the PT hour is to get you tired, and also to condition you for training so you are in good physical condition. But mainly, it's to make you extremely tired before rolling so you have to do technique instead of muscling.

A Bear Crawl is where you crawl on your hands and feet, like walking on "all fours", which is hard enough by itself, but now do it with a guy on you piggyback and basically you can go about 50 feet before collapsing. You want to have equal weight on your hands and feet while you do it, you're not just using your hands for balance, you really want to be walking on all fours.

[Great Sage]

Actually Sean, my BJJ class is very similar to yours. We hold a 2-3 hour class that consists of the following:

30-45 minutes - Strength & Conditioning
- Up-Downs until you can't get up anymore
- 40 Puships or Wheel Barrels back and forth, back and forth, etc...
- 80-100 sit-ups, cross-collar choke crunches, etc...
- Back Spins x 64
- Hip Turns x 50
- Trees
- Bear Walks

1-2 Hours
Drill 2-3 moves

Last hour or so... Open Mat.

[Mr. Heel Hook]

What is a "trees"?

[Sean Dempsey]

Trees are your friend.

Picture this. lets say that Sean and MHH are gonna do a tree (yay).

It would go like this:

MHH would stand with a good base, knees kinda bent with his arms straight out to his side.

Sean would then get on his back piggyback style with my arms over your shoulders and my legs wrapped around you and hooked over your thighs, just like a back mount. you would maintain the tree position, which is hard as hell considering I weigh about 190 and an about to be climbing on you like you're a piece of gym equipment.

Then, without touching the ground, I would move from your back to your chest by only hanging on your shoulders and hooking with my feet. Then, once around so we are chest to chest (like I am a big baby), I then move around back to your back. You do it in stages, so it's like: on your back, loop my arm under yours, hook a foot and move to your right side, slip my head under your bicep so now my head is in front of your arm, regrip my hand, hook my foot around again and come around so now I have you in my guard and my arms are up over your shoulders. Then, I move my arm under your left arm and hook a foot around again, and then move so now I am hanging on your left side. I then hook a foot in your knee crook and then climb around to end up on your back again.

Getting around once is enough, usually it's all either guy can handle.

[Mr. Heel Hook]

Interesting, to say the least. Flat out, we don't train as hard as you in this fashion. I think I will try it out for the hell of it.

[Martial Artist]

They are both the same school. If you go to Brasil you'll train at the same academy as renzo or machados guys no matter what. They both fly under the Gracie Barra flag.

Train at the Machados unlimited. But dont tell anybody your just training there for a little while then switching to Renzos school, thats not good.