Machado or Gracie Ju Jitsu????

Undecided · 10-31-2003, 10:30 AM

I live in NYC and interested in BJJ. I can go to either the NYC Machado school or the Renzo Gracie school. I checked out both schools and both look good. The main deciding factor is price. For the same price I can go to unlimited classes at the Machado school or twice a week at the Gracie school.

Which do you guys think is the better choice?

I would think that the Machado school is a better deal and I would learn more since I can go to more classes.

Has anyone trained at either schools?

**gregimotis** · 10-31-2003, 03:53 PM

If both schools look good (and they should both be good) then yeah, you should definitly go unlimited classes, right?

I mean if it were between Gracie and some no name that might be different, but the Machados have earned their rep.

Undecided · 10-31-2003, 04:38 PM

The Gracie school is taught by Renzo Gracie himself and the Machado school is taught by Marcos Santos.

Renzo has a great reputation and I am wondering if training with him will make up for only being able to train twice a week.

I have never heard of Marcos Santos.

Undecided · 10-31-2003, 04:44 PM

The Gracie school is taught by Renzo Gracie himself and the Machado school is taught by Marcos Santos.

Renzo has a great reputation and I am wondering if training with him will make up for only being able to train twice a week.

I have never heard of Marcos Santos.

Mr. Heel Hook · 10-31-2003, 05:24 PM

Simple choice to me. Go to Renzo's school. He is a class act and a world class fighter. How is it hard to decide?

**gregimotis** · 10-31-2003, 05:30 PM

That's a good point. One assumes that the Machado's would screen thier instructors pretty well, but still it might not be the same as training directly under Renzo.

So, here's two more things to consider, are you sure Renzo teaches every class, or is he just around sometimes?

And - are you able to get mat time outside of class. In other words, can you be in the Gracie gym and rolling with fellow students on your own? That could make up for the two classes thing.

I think I would go for the unlimited classes if I couldn't get additional roll time - if the instruction is high quality, then hours on the mat probably makes up for the Gracie name. Although I gotta admit training directly under Renzo Gracie would be pretty cool.

Mr. Heel Hook · 10-31-2003, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gregimotis

So, here's two more things to consider, are you sure Renzo teaches every class, or is he just around sometimes?

He is around a lot from my understanding.

**gregimotis** · 10-31-2003, 06:18 PM

So, you gotta choose between 2X per week under Renzo Gracie himself, or unlimited days under a Machado affiliate.

Boy, it sucks to be you.

Hakoko · 10-31-2003, 07:30 PM

I'm sure Marcos Santos is very good, but if it were me I would go to Renzo's. If it were a Machado teaching then I would go to the Machado school. However, not to say anything about Marcos, I'm sure he's excellent, but you have the chance to train with Renzo, that in itself would make the decision for me.

jules · 11-01-2003, 03:59 AM

It depends on how large the classes are. If you are one of 30 students Mr. Gracie won't be able to spend much time with you. Go for the smaller class if you are a newbie.

Toudiyama[NL] · 11-01-2003, 07:29 AM

wouldn't it be nice to first start at machado, get a lot of training there and then switch to Renzo's place?
I mean is interesting as a beginner to train with Renzo?

IPON · 11-01-2003, 12:25 PM

I had the same delema myself regading BJJ. I met with both Santos and Gracie (at the old school). And it is a tough call, I had a very good discussion with Santos and I liked the atmosphere, with Gracie my discussion wan't bad but it wasn't great (part of that may have been due to me though).

Santos:
Trainied under Macho directly
BB in BJJ
Small classes
The building had Vee Arnis and Church Street boxing
good atmosphere
the facilaties are not a good as Gracie (but they don't need to be at thh same time)
and convient by all trains

Gracie
Well like you said its Renzo
New facilaties (only saw on the website they look good)
more classess
Potental to meet other top Gracies
I actually like the fact the classes are 2 hours
But the price ... you have to be realistic for your circumstance
Santos is charging $150 per/mo unlimited ($1,800 per/yr.) Thats what Renzo started out with.........How much is Gracie per year?
when you went to the dojo did you speak with Renzo and ask him how often he taught classes

It would be nice to study GJJ, but remeber there are lots of top BJJ stylists that have not studied with Gracies. So it does seem that money is a factor(and damn they are both expensive) but I personally would go with the lower cost and unlimited classes that is what will help you improve.

Oh and I still have not joined either school, but if Gracie is like $300 tha's crazy, I don't think is it is a huge sacrifice, considering I would like to keep my cable tv, utililites and phone connected. I would join Machado, Actually I think my work load will calm down by Jan /Feb and I will start.

http://www.nycmachadojj.com/

http://www.renzogracie.com/

IPON · 11-01-2003, 12:32 PM

Hakoko

What is you feeling about GJJ vs MJJ?

Sean Dempsey · 11-01-2003, 03:08 PM

Quote:

What is you feeling about GJJ vs MJJ?

*One* person developed BJJ - Helio Gracie.

In my opinion, it ain't hard to decide where to go.

IPON · 11-01-2003, 05:22 PM

Sean - Yes that is true the GJJ we know is from Helio. But Renzo promoted under Carlos Gracie Jr. (not Helio) as was Rigan Machado (and most Machados) who promoted Marcos Santos.

The question is about 2 schools in NYC both with hi quality instructors, so I don't think the choice is as simple as "GJJ" especially if you are not getting Renzo and you have to pay around $300per/mo. Do you think it is better to train with a BB in MJJ that has studied since 6y/o or blue belt in GJJ that earned it training he last 5 or so years under Renzo (and I am not saying a blue/purple belt is a chump). I think that is the real question. If everything were close to equal I would probably agree with GJJ

I am not taking side or trying to start a GJJ vs MJJ debate. But not a lot is discussed about MJJ and I am curious about others experiences.

Also what about Carlos? It seems the are 2 lineages with GJJ one from Helio and one from Carlos. MJJ is from the Carlos side from what I understand. Also it seems that there is bad blood between these families..do you or anyone else have any information about that, just curious.

10-31-2003, 10:30 AM	#1 (permalink)
Undecided Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 5	Machado or Gracie Ju Jitsu???? I live in NYC and interested in BJJ. I can go to either the NYC Machado school or the Renzo Gracie school. I checked out both schools and both look good. The main deciding factor is price. For the same price I can go to unlimited classes at the Machado school or twice a week at the Gracie school. Which do you guys think is the better choice? I would think that the Machado school is a better deal and I would learn more since I can go to more classes. Has anyone trained at either schools?

10-31-2003, 05:24 PM	#5 (permalink)
Mr. Heel Hook Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Pepperell MA Posts: 441	Simple choice to me. Go to Renzo's school. He is a class act and a world class fighter. How is it hard to decide? __________________ "A deer admires a lion. But all the members of our family are lions. So it doesn't matter which lion I admire. " -Rener Gracie-

11-01-2003, 07:29 AM	#11 (permalink)
Toudiyama[NL] Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Zaandam, Netherlands Posts: 1,391	wouldn't it be nice to first start at machado, get a lot of training there and then switch to Renzo's place? I mean is interesting as a beginner to train with Renzo? __________________

11-01-2003, 12:25 PM	#12 (permalink)
IPON Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: NYC Posts: 1,558	I had the same delema myself regading BJJ. I met with both Santos and Gracie (at the old school). And it is a tough call, I had a very good discussion with Santos and I liked the atmosphere, with Gracie my discussion wan't bad but it wasn't great (part of that may have been due to me though). Santos: Trainied under Macho directly BB in BJJ Small classes The building had Vee Arnis and Church Street boxing good atmosphere the facilaties are not a good as Gracie (but they don't need to be at thh same time) and convient by all trains Gracie Well like you said its Renzo New facilaties (only saw on the website they look good) more classess Potental to meet other top Gracies I actually like the fact the classes are 2 hours But the price ... you have to be realistic for your circumstance Santos is charging $150 per/mo unlimited ($1,800 per/yr.) Thats what Renzo started out with.........How much is Gracie per year? when you went to the dojo did you speak with Renzo and ask him how often he taught classes It would be nice to study GJJ, but remeber there are lots of top BJJ stylists that have not studied with Gracies. So it does seem that money is a factor(and damn they are both expensive) but I personally would go with the lower cost and unlimited classes that is what will help you improve. Oh and I still have not joined either school, but if Gracie is like $300 tha's crazy, I don't think is it is a huge sacrifice, considering I would like to keep my cable tv, utililites and phone connected. I would join Machado, Actually I think my work load will calm down by Jan /Feb and I will start. http://www.nycmachadojj.com/ http://www.renzogracie.com/ __________________ A person who is said to be proficient in the arts is like a fool. Because of his foolishness in concerning himself with just one thing, he thinks of nothing else and thus becomes proficient. - Hagarkure

11-01-2003, 12:32 PM	#13 (permalink)
IPON Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: NYC Posts: 1,558	Hakoko What is you feeling about GJJ vs MJJ? __________________ A person who is said to be proficient in the arts is like a fool. Because of his foolishness in concerning himself with just one thing, he thinks of nothing else and thus becomes proficient. - Hagarkure

10-31-2003, 03:53 PM	#2 (permalink)
gregimotis Premiere Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Still residing in the Premiere members booth Posts: 1,984	If both schools look good (and they should both be good) then yeah, you should definitly go unlimited classes, right? I mean if it were between Gracie and some no name that might be different, but the Machados have earned their rep.

10-31-2003, 04:38 PM	#3 (permalink)
Undecided Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 5	The Gracie school is taught by Renzo Gracie himself and the Machado school is taught by Marcos Santos. Renzo has a great reputation and I am wondering if training with him will make up for only being able to train twice a week. I have never heard of Marcos Santos.

10-31-2003, 04:44 PM	#4 (permalink)
Undecided Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 5	The Gracie school is taught by Renzo Gracie himself and the Machado school is taught by Marcos Santos. Renzo has a great reputation and I am wondering if training with him will make up for only being able to train twice a week. I have never heard of Marcos Santos.

10-31-2003, 05:30 PM	#6 (permalink)
gregimotis Premiere Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Still residing in the Premiere members booth Posts: 1,984	That's a good point. One assumes that the Machado's would screen thier instructors pretty well, but still it might not be the same as training directly under Renzo. So, here's two more things to consider, are you sure Renzo teaches every class, or is he just around sometimes? And - are you able to get mat time outside of class. In other words, can you be in the Gracie gym and rolling with fellow students on your own? That could make up for the two classes thing. I think I would go for the unlimited classes if I couldn't get additional roll time - if the instruction is high quality, then hours on the mat probably makes up for the Gracie name. Although I gotta admit training directly under Renzo Gracie would be pretty cool.

10-31-2003, 06:18 PM	#8 (permalink)
gregimotis Premiere Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Still residing in the Premiere members booth Posts: 1,984	So, you gotta choose between 2X per week under Renzo Gracie himself, or unlimited days under a Machado affiliate. Boy, it sucks to be you.

10-31-2003, 07:30 PM	#9 (permalink)
Hakoko Registered User Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 124	I'm sure Marcos Santos is very good, but if it were me I would go to Renzo's. If it were a Machado teaching then I would go to the Machado school. However, not to say anything about Marcos, I'm sure he's excellent, but you have the chance to train with Renzo, that in itself would make the decision for me.

11-01-2003, 03:59 AM	#10 (permalink)
jules Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 474	It depends on how large the classes are. If you are one of 30 students Mr. Gracie won't be able to spend much time with you. Go for the smaller class if you are a newbie.

11-01-2003, 05:22 PM	#15 (permalink)
IPON Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: NYC Posts: 1,558	Sean - Yes that is true the GJJ we know is from Helio. But Renzo promoted under Carlos Gracie Jr. (not Helio) as was Rigan Machado (and most Machados) who promoted Marcos Santos. The question is about 2 schools in NYC both with hi quality instructors, so I don't think the choice is as simple as "GJJ" especially if you are not getting Renzo and you have to pay around $300per/mo. Do you think it is better to train with a BB in MJJ that has studied since 6y/o or blue belt in GJJ that earned it training he last 5 or so years under Renzo (and I am not saying a blue/purple belt is a chump). I think that is the real question. If everything were close to equal I would probably agree with GJJ I am not taking side or trying to start a GJJ vs MJJ debate. But not a lot is discussed about MJJ and I am curious about others experiences. Also what about Carlos? It seems the are 2 lineages with GJJ one from Helio and one from Carlos. MJJ is from the Carlos side from what I understand. Also it seems that there is bad blood between these families..do you or anyone else have any information about that, just curious. __________________ A person who is said to be proficient in the arts is like a fool. Because of his foolishness in concerning himself with just one thing, he thinks of nothing else and thus becomes proficient. - Hagarkure

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