jubaji

LOL

I should hope so! At least that's a good excuse!

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thesnake

im just tired of people saying shit like "ninjas can do magic and tht they didnt exist"

jubaji

Well, isn't it standard practice to wait until someone has actually said that before crying out against it?

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thesnake

they have in other post i suppose i should have just replied in there

cloud72

the ninjas didnt have magic,this is true,they had devices and "magic tricks"if you will ,that were mainly used for distractions and or quick damage,but not much else

Broadsword2004

thesnake, I'm guessing maybe you read Stephen K. hayes books...? I read one of his books on the ninja, and he said exactly what you said, that they were sworn enemies of the samurai because the samurai loved their swords and had them beautifully carved, etc...real works of craftsmanship, then blessed, whereas ninja used a short, plain, straight sword, and if they lost it, big deal, they'd get another one, and also samurai despised ninjas methods of stealth, etc...some people said ninja were really samurai that turned renegade or specially-trained samurai or something, who knows.

Maybe it was both.

But of course ninja didn't use magic (unless you believe Ashida Kim ). They just did as they Liam Neeson says in "Batman Begins," they used "theatricality and deception," which back then you could easily fool people with.

You still can if you are skilled enough, good magicians do it all the time; the good magicians will do stuff that looks absolutely impossible, but it's just the art of trickery.

What the ninja did in some senses is kind of basic even; just screw with your opponent's mind.

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thesnake

actually never read any Stephen K. hayes but maybe i should and yes the first ninjas were renagade samurai kicked out of the order for being dishonorable but they began to flourish and so they did like *damn cant think of good word* "reproduce" on there own and another reason samurai hated ninja was because they belived the ninjas swords were "evil" and would not discriminate against wat or how they killed

Tai Chi Fighter

Ninja were not renegade Samurai. That is all that needs to be said.

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Shaolin Bushido

Thanks for clearing that up.

*turns to buddy* "PAY ME! I TOLD YOU HE WAS A TROLL!

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thesnake

they werent "renagade" samurai but the first ninja were either retainers for dishonored/killed samurai or were samurai dishonored in battle

gregimotis

Okay good, just when I thought things were getting boring around here;


Along comes a mom's-basement ninja.

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EmptyneSs

is stephen k hayes for real? cause i looked at one of his books and it was kinda absurd. i was looking at a fat middle aged white guy in a ninja costume playing with weapons and trying to climp up shit or hide behind stuff in his backyard. i mean, yeah it looked like he was having a lot of fun, but wtf? is he legit or is he just a 40 year old guy who is trying to live out his childhood fantasies?

Shaolin Bushido

He's as legit as is possible. I think in the final analysis the fact that Ninpo is not accepted as koryo by the Japanese and Okinawan Martial Arts establishment sorta hints at how they regard the "art".

They don't think there is a grandmaster, a lineage or even a legitimate basis for consideration. At least I've never heard one. If they can meet with Hatsuumi and basically dismiss his evidence there's a good chance it's all bullshit. If he's never met with them there's a good chance it's all bullshit. If it's all bullshit there's a good chance Hatsuumi is either insane or an attention whore. If he's insane or an attention whore he's a good actor since experienced martial artists from all walks of life with above average powers of perception have trained with him ... some for a decade or more.

Since it really doesn't impact me one way or the other I perceive it on the basis of the data I've seen. It may or may not be legitimate as it's often promoted but I understand that there were specialists in the past who were selected and trained to perform tasks that are generally considered "dirty tricks". They weren't referred to as Ninja in their lifetimes but they were there and still are today.

They're called either "terrorists" or "freedom fighters" depending on your perspective.

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WildWest.

You can always go back and edit your posts.

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Michael831

thesnake,
Would you mind telling us where you got your information? I'll agree that the ninja were pretty much opposites of the samurai, but I doubt they were the enemies you make them out to be. Remember, ninjas were used as spies by the lords (samurai) to spy on each other.