Thread: What is exactly ninjitsu???

I hate to say this but I still haven't really been convinced. Really I am just looking at this objectively, not a he said/she said internet rumor but I am talking about the system of fighting...all the rest may be lying, it may not be, that is not my buisness nor my interest at all. I could care less if people think he isn't telling the truth in several aspects of his life, whom really does? it's really quite common to exagerate certain elements of life that we have participated in.

What is important to me right now is whether anyone has studied with him in his system, along with experience in other systems as a basis for juxtaposition or analytical observation. I can tell you that there are professional martial artists that have staked their reputation behind backing him as far as people like PauloTocha whom also has been known to have participated in underground fighting events similar to what Frank Dux is claiming, hell, many people could at least attest to the reality of underground fighting, especially intergang fighting, just maybe not at the level of what he has claimed.

It is not in my best interest to defend him as a person, I am just looking for someone whom has trained with him or his associates and can provide insight into what is Dux Ryu, the rest does not interest me at all because it's all in the end, just speculation and assumptions, or if fact, not pertaining to his current level of martial arts teaching.

Once again, I respect your opinion and his as I do not know him nor whether he is a pathological liar or underestimated, and misunderstood teacher. I also have to add that hearing someone else's opinion of him as a person is helpful as to whether he just might be a respectable personality or not, but, still I am speaking of his fighting or teaching skill... If that cannot be answered then I really will not form an opinion of him other than he might be a disengenuous soul.

Like I said before, it's really the fighting style and teaching ability which I am interested in, and, many people have stated that he is actually quite gifted physically in that regard.

Maybe we could all make a list as to whom might be respectable in Ninjutsu...sound like an idea?

Nah, I really do not care if someone actually agrees or disagrees with the posters here, or myself...it would just be interesting to hear from someone whom has at least seen the system in action or having attended one of Mr. Dux's classes to give an objective and insightful perspective.

The only thing I know of Frank Dux is from the movie Blood Sport. I can only report what I have heard of him. The concensus from others I have talked to in the Bujinkan concerning this man say that he does not practice traditional ninjutsu. Many regard him in a similar way as with Ashida Kim and Frank Tew. However, I have no evidence to either prove or disprove his credentials as a ninjutsu practitioner, or evaluate the effectiveness of what he teaches. Sorry to be of so little help.

This is basically the response of a former associate and current Ninjitsu DOJO owner via e-mail.

"Does he have a good martial arts system? Yes, I think so." When I asked if it is a legitimate form of Ninjitsu, he responded "That depends on whom you ask...it is NOT Japanese Ninjitsu though, more of a combination of many aklectic styles and variations on the theme."

He then goes on to say of how physically ill Mr Dux is at this time and that I or anybody else would be very hard pressed to see him give even a demo anymore...I guess we'll never know.

Originally Posted by Bloody Face

Nah, I really do not care if someone actually agrees or disagrees with the posters here, or myself...it would just be interesting to hear from someone whom has at least seen the system in action or having attended one of Mr. Dux's classes to give an objective and insightful perspective.

Currently training in DRN (a few short years). It is an eclectic system and is excellent.

Here is something that may be of interest:

"A little background/history of DRN
(my perspective based on discussions with Dux and my personal experience with this art and others)

DRN started out 25 years ago as a modification of a combination of the form of ninjitsu taught to Dux, the style of jujitsu taught to Dux (the two main traditional MA influences on the system), and his personal experiences. If you had watched a class back then, you would have easily recognized the influences. Overtime, the style has been modified considerably. Although we keep the "ninjitsu" moniker, and inform people that we are derived from Koga ninjitsu, we tell them straight off, if they are looking for traditional "ninjutsu", we are not the place, as they will find very little similarities. We are our own system.

Why Dux does not clear up the controversy about his instructor is between him and his teacher, and although a few know, Sojo isn't one of them. "

The website (and the Frank Dux Forum) is now semi-private. We do invite guest to join in. But we DO NOT discuss the Controversy. We try hard to discuss martial arts.

Originally Posted by Hikage

Ok, sounds legit. But then so do many things. What do you guys believe about kihon happo? Where do you differ from traditional ninjitsu. What made him decide to take away from an art that has worked well for thousands of years? -Hikage

Upfront with the point that I've never trained in bujinkan or budo taijutsu. I may have been banned from martialtalk for saying that I believe that the bujinkan style is an eclectic style. The basic eight of kihon happo is supposedly taken from 4 different Ryu. From what i can see in videos i've seen, I basically think they are ok. I do believe the stances in all 8 can be improved upon making the tori even faster and adding more power to the techniques. But again, take my opinions with a grain of salt as I haven't trained in the style. I also don't see them as "Ninjutsu" techniques but only techniques gleaned from the 4 Ryu which are not all "Ninjutsu" Ryu. But the use of the 8 basics is a good way to begin one's study in this artform.

The basic difference in what I can see between traditional ninjutsu and more modern styles is that modern styles no longer concern themselves with studying how the ancient Ninja accomplished their accomplishments (which is Sensei Hatsumi's definition of Ninjutsu). Modern styles basically looked back at the accomplishments of the Ninja, decided what would be of use today and disgarded that which is now perceived as of little modern use.

As far as an art working well for thousands of years, we may be dealing with an opinion here and not reality. My own opinion is that certain elements have pasted the test of time in particular, element having to do with warfare, strategy development, subterfuge, leadership, mystics, etc. The armed and unarmed fighting elements of the ancients have little use today as most of the weapons are obsolete. Not sure the original Ninja put much emphisis on hand-to-hand combat. Hand-to-hand fighting elements may have been added to the system as time passed. Think we still have this Romantization with these secret warriors though.

So, I guess when you say "worked for thousands of years," i would agree in that the system has gone through constant evolution and now probubly doesn't resemble the original system. There are no pure Ninjutsu/Ninjitsu Ryu in existance today. Everyone is adding to the mix such that the term is only a moniker. But its fun anyway.

You're welcomed to show me where I'm wrong in the above. The whole subject is a learning process for me.