Originally Posted by Bloody Face

I am wondering why noone has entered a MMA tournament with a back ground of Ninjitsu/BJJ? It sounds like a very good match to me...taking into account Steve Jennum and others whom were trained by Robert Bussey. It seems that Bussey's guys are the only one's willing to enter the MMA.

Originally Posted by Bloody Face

It seems that Bussey's guys are the only one's willing to enter the MMA.

Originally Posted by chalambok

No, Bloody Face, I was not referring specifically to you. I also wonder why no other Ninja than Bussey's people have ever fought. But then there are many styles which have such a huge (or slow-to-learn) curricula that very few students attain combat usefulness before they are too old for recreational fighting. That is why Shoot Boxing and Shoot Wrestling and muay Thai are huge in Japan, as well as K1 and UFC. I don't know if enrollment in the traditional arts has dropped off or not, but anyone who looks around the least bit can see where all the fighters come from, grappling, jujutsu and kickboxing or muay Thai gyms.

Originally Posted by Hikage

You know, I'm a ninjitsu guy and really could care less about "recreational fighting." I don't watch the UFC's, nor do I really pay any attention to the so called "experts" of today. The other ninjitsu people I have encountered have often expressed a similar view. We know the art works and don't need to fluff up our feathers in a boxing ring.
-Hikage

Originally Posted by Hikage

The other ninjitsu people I have encountered have often expressed a similar view. We know the art works

Originally Posted by Hikage

We don't need to fluff up our feathers in a boxing ring.

-Hikage

Originally Posted by Mike Brewer

Hikage,
It may be tough to imagine, but some of us get in the ring because we really enjoy the sport. One of the side benefits to it is that we learn a lot about what works and what doesn't, and we learn to separate theory and gym wisdom from application and practice. But no one I train with is under any illusions about boxing being the end-all fighting system either. That's something only martial artists worry about. Boxers, in general, like to box. They compete, they don't "fight." And what's more, we don't do it wondering whether or not a wrestler or a Tae kwon Do guy or even a Ninja could kick our asses in the street. Again, that preoccupation is the domain of the insecure. We know why we do what we do, and the ring happens to be our expression of it. There's no feather fluffing involved.

Originally Posted by jubaji

Is that what you think boxers are doing in the ring?

Originally Posted by Mike Brewer

I too have served in the trenches. I worked as a bouncer for eight years everywhere from LA to Colorado Springs. I was the Head of Security at my area's biggest County Emergency Room, and we dealt with combative drunks, convicts, and psychotics all the time. I have worked armed and unarmed security, been in several knife encounters, shootings, and mass brawls. I was a Special Operations soldier and I was given several commendations for the quality and effectiveness of the hand-to-hand combatives programs I developed and taught to some of our guys. Not to mention spending many years as a misguided youth that had a penchant for getting into fights. I have tested my art in all of the arenas you mention, and I'm about ot admit something that may surprise everyone:

Streetfighting is far easier than ring fighting.

In every streetfight I've ever been in, win or lose, it happened FAST. It came on quick (even in those instances when you expect it all night long), and it was usually over even quicker. Injuries weren't felt (I can attest to never having felt a single one of the four separate knife wounds I've received in real-world encounters), and responses were not clean. Endurance was rarely a factor, and mental conditioning proved far greater an asset than physical conditioning. Staying calm meant winning far more often than did physical fitness.

Ring fighting, on the other hand, pits two well conditioned athletes with weeks - even months - to prepare in the ring under equal circumstances. There are no tricks, there are no surprises, and there are no escape routes. The rules that are in place are partly for the safety of the fighters, but they are largely for the prolonging of the bout, and the accompanying pleasure of the spectators. Regardless of how impotent one believes the rules make to art, the fight is tougher inside the ropes than it ever has been outside, until you breach the line between streetfighting and warfighting. Despite your confidence in your art, I would encourage you to go train with some competitors and see what they have to offer. No egos, no disrespect. Just training. I'd be willing to bet you'd find it "enlightening."

Originally Posted by Mike Brewer

Ring fighting, on the other hand, pits two well conditioned athletes with weeks - even months - to prepare in the ring under equal circumstances. There are no tricks, there are no surprises, and there are no escape routes. The rules that are in place are partly for the safety of the fighters, but they are largely for the prolonging of the bout, and the accompanying pleasure of the spectators. Regardless of how impotent one believes the rules make to art, the fight is tougher inside the ropes than it ever has been outside, until you breach the line between streetfighting and warfighting. Despite your confidence in your art, I would encourage you to go train with some competitors and see what they have to offer. No egos, no disrespect. Just training. I'd be willing to bet you'd find it "enlightening."

Originally Posted by Mike Brewer

I too have been in situations that involved skills TOTALLY unlike the ring. And you're right in saying that the "no-rules" end of the fighting spectrum involves a whole other skill and mindset. When faced with multiple attackers, I have to say I tend to fight only so long as the exit is blocked, and while my ring experience is far more limited than my street experience, I've not had anyone pull a knife or gun on me between the ropes.

My point was not to discredit any of the more "reality-based" arts. Rather, it was to shed some light on the benefits of sport fighting as far as teaching one how to deal with stress, fear, and a gap in skill or ability. If I didn't say it before, I was remiss, but in most streetfights I've been in, things happened too quickly for fear and panic to be much of a factor. Several times, I simply moved and hit whatever and wherever available. But in the ring, you face your demons differently. The fear has weeks to work on you, and doubts arise that you cannot shake until the final bell rings. It's not real fighting by any stretch. It's not as dangerous, nor are the stakes anywhere near as high. In a way, that's what makes it so valueable a training tool. Something tougher than the real thing that doesn't carry the life or death risks?! BRILLIANT!

Originally Posted by Bloody Face

Most definitely, I agree...my point was that maybe Ninjitsu(Ninjutsu) is better suited to a street fight than any other situation.