nikos

I dont see how sets and katas improve your fighting ability.
I personally believe that you can get more out of shadow boxing, practicing combos in air, doing drills with partners and so on instead trying to similate situations in a dance like motion.
Alot of people do it with the mentality of trying to get from the beggining to end of the set and dont even think about what there doing.
I found when i was doing a TMA that sets didnt allow me to be myself or put my own style into fighting.
And sets cant be the same for all, some people are tall some are short some have some attributes that others dont have.
How can a set fit all?
Not trying to be another bruce lee mimick but i just don t see sets as good way of training and beleive people shouldnt waste there time with them.
As well as that, i beleive to many martail artists place to much emphases on sets and practicee them way to much, instead of concerntrating on more important things like sparring and so on.
Does anyone feel the same way.
What are your thoughts on sets?

Thai Bri

My thoughts are very simiar to your mate.

Hit pads, bags and dummies and fight (with some rules and prtective equipment) with people.

Robotic dances merely teach you how NOT to fight, and will load up your muscle memory with crap. Thee are, of course, many here who will tell you that sets improve "balance", "co-ordination", "timing" etc etc. One guy even claimed here that they teach you how to read minds......

In fairness to him, he was as accurate as the other bozos.

The balance etc required for a kata/set is NOT the balance needed for a real fight.

Also, let me know when you see tennis players, hockey players, footballers, etc etc etc train in these silly ways. They don't.

Katas were designed when people weren't clever enough to think of better training methods, and they didn't have the equipment. The people who carry on this practice are fine. Let them. But don't let them convince innocent newcomers that it will teach them how to fight.

Hikage

The sets, katas, whatever you call them were devised by the koreans to keep the european populus (I am refering to those who possess the caucasian body structure) underneath their thumbs. The europeans, due to their body statures, were able to learn techniques and applications in months that would take the koreans years to learn. Therefore, the koreans invented the set forms that would take us forever to master. Additionally, the koreans could pick apart the forms and maintain a level of authority over the europeans. Admit it, if you have a choice between an asian running a school or a black man, you'll unconsciously choose the asian.

Kata, as it was orginally performed was meant to be freestyle, not set in stone. It was designed to reflect the artist's body, temperment, and style, which today's katas do not.

If you are in an art where these forms are taught, learn them out of respect for your instructors and those who came before you, but know they are not going to teach you how to fight. Most people in karate styles need to re-learn the techniques they are taught in the dojo in order to be able to apply them on the street. Don't leave your class, just be prepared to make changes when the time comes and train for realism.

-Hikage

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Thai Bri

Why did the Japanese, Okinawans and Chinese do them then?

Hikage

Not sure. I know a similar occurance happened in Okinawa and I do believe that set forms have always been in China (don't quote me please), but I'm not sure about Japan. My understanding of the forms comes mostly with the koreans. My guess is that something similar happened in Japan. Furthermore, many martial artists have created their own forms for themselves and their own training.

-Hikage

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IPON

Hikage - you are really off base with this explanation....honestly what you are stating doesn't make any sense.

__________________
A person who is said to be proficient in the arts is like a fool. Because of his foolishness in concerning himself with just one thing, he thinks of nothing else and thus becomes proficient. - Hagarkure

Hikage

......................ok


-Hikage

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Thai Bri

OK, whilst you're in a more sensible mood........ You can't punch an incoming punch can you?

IPON

I am glad we agree

__________________
A person who is said to be proficient in the arts is like a fool. Because of his foolishness in concerning himself with just one thing, he thinks of nothing else and thus becomes proficient. - Hagarkure

nikos

waht do you mean thai bri?
Please elaborate...

sherwinc

Sets and Kata's, it is Worth Practicing??????

in Karate and Tae Kwon Do - it is useless

but in KungFu - it is a very usefull and a very important

__________________
"When your hand meets my hand, your hand is already my hand"

Question: What are the principal characteristics of a good fighter?

Answer: A good fighter has a lot of tricks, but doesn't play games

Lesson: More Techniques learned are better than Few

sherwinc

In NgoChoKun and in WingChun... you can punch an incoming punch....

it is called TRADING BLOWS

a dit dat jow is prepared for who's knuckles first to crack...... then massage

__________________
"When your hand meets my hand, your hand is already my hand"

Question: What are the principal characteristics of a good fighter?

Answer: A good fighter has a lot of tricks, but doesn't play games

Lesson: More Techniques learned are better than Few

nikos

I done Wing Chun, and i think they spend to much time on sil lum tao.
They should spend more time on application.
And i hate and i mean HATE how they practice chi sao constanly instead of actaully fighting...
Its over emphassiseed.
You dont need that much sensitivity in fighting....
Chi sao is only a drill but in most Wing chun schools they use it as a way of sparring, which is totally off.
Thats why i like good old thai boxing and westarn boxing.
It teaches you how to defend against somone trying to knock your head off, instead of all this pulling back punches crap that they teach in most TMA schools.
Both TMA and MMA have there flaws but TMA has really got to upgrade on there training methods.

sherwinc

Sets and katas...is it worth practicing?

you know, i just thinking this....

if sets and katas are useless in combat and shadow boxing is the only important.... it is like a FANCY DRILL in the Military, NROTC, or in a BoyScot drill......

why dont they learn how to use AK-47 instead of an old Garand Rifle, learn the principles of Battle Sight Zero, learn simulations of war in many fighting grounds..... instead of learning Fancy Drills???????

Fancy Drills such as:
1. Troop Atention, Parade Rest, Left Flank, Right Flank, Cadence Count, About Face, Left Face, ect.......

you know..... if you compare it in a Martial Arts it is called Kata, Pomsee, or Kun, Chien, Set Patterns.......

now if Kata, set patterns, etc in martial arts is useless - then why is it that the Military as of now do FANCY DRILL if they will only concentrate to Target Shooting, etc......

Cause Fancy Drill is a Waste of Time...... Cause Kata, Pomsee, Set Patterns, etc... is a Waste of Time????????

Convinced???????

2. If Martial Arts Weaponry like Swords, Sabers, Tri-Sectional Staff is useless as of now Modern Days...... why is it that in the Military Fancy Drill, even the General or the Batallion Commander uses stupid Swords to command thier platoon and the platoon leaders uses the Spear with a Flag attach on its end???? Why dont they use all solid Ak-47 instead of old Garand Rifle or stupids Swords and Spears??????

Note:
KungFu Set Patterns are usefull in Combat...... and Kata's and Pomsee's are...... haw haw haw haw

__________________
"When your hand meets my hand, your hand is already my hand"

Question: What are the principal characteristics of a good fighter?

Answer: A good fighter has a lot of tricks, but doesn't play games

Lesson: More Techniques learned are better than Few