Medival Knight VS Japanese Samauri (sp)

**Hardball** · 06-24-2005, 12:21 PM

I am doing research about the Medival Knights and the Japanese Samauri. Not which one was toughest or best but simply the similarities, differences, philosophies, training, terrain and time period. Please discuss. Any references or bibliographies would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance for your participation.

Bowing Out.

Blue Wave Gym · 06-24-2005, 01:09 PM

what about the ancient hwrang warriors or the monguls, bad dudes for sure,look at medeviel european ma web sites for info, also the society for creative anacroism where guys fight in armor with wooden weapons nuts!!!

RYO9 · 06-24-2005, 01:50 PM

Similarities:
both had a fuedal contract
Both had a code of conduct

Differences:
Religion
Knights were more for the money
style of combat

Training:
Kinghts trained from time they are old enough to use a sword or ride a horse. however there is no art that they used.
Samurai were trained from a young age, about 7, in the arts of Iaido and Kenjitsu. when weapons were banned in Japan (1600-1850 roughly) they developed the art of Aikido.

Terrain is irrelavent considering they both trained/fught on almost any type of terrain.

Time Period:
Kights- 700 AD-1750 AD roughly, they became just iconic symbols after that.
Samurai- sometime aorund 400 AD- 1850 AD when the need for them was no longer there.

I know a lot more this is just a starter. If you need more help let me know.

Mullins

**Hardball** · 06-24-2005, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RYO9

Similarities:
both had a fuedal contract
Both had a code of conduct

Differences:
Religion
Knights were more for the money
style of combat

Training:
Kinghts trained from time they are old enough to use a sword or ride a horse. however there is no art that they used.
Samurai were trained from a young age, about 7, in the arts of Iaido and Kenjitsu. when weapons were banned in Japan (1600-1850 roughly) they developed the art of Aikido.

Terrain is irrelavent considering they both trained/fught on almost any type of terrain.

Time Period:
Kights- 700 AD-1750 AD roughly, they became just iconic symbols after that.
Samurai- sometime aorund 400 AD- 1850 AD when the need for them was no longer there.

I know a lot more this is just a starter. If you need more help let me know.

Mullins

Thanks a lot. How about some references, bibliographies, sources.

Bowing Out

**Hardball** · 06-24-2005, 03:07 PM

If anybody has any first hand knowledge due to ancestors, feel free to contribute to the discussion.

Bowing Out

millie · 06-24-2005, 03:27 PM

the one thing thats inportont is finishing
lots of people start things but few finish
a butter fly sits on a piece of shit and is
perfectly happy, man by his nature is
never happy on his piece of shit.
practice kata 108 times a day

**Hardball** · 06-24-2005, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by millie

the one thing thats inportont is finishing
lots of people start things but few finish
a butter fly sits on a piece of shit and is
perfectly happy, man by his nature is
never happy on his piece of shit.
practice kata 108 times a day

The most dangerous man in Japan only knew one Kata; but he did it every day.

Grandmaster George Dillman

IPON · 06-24-2005, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hardball

The most dangerous man in Japan only knew one Kata; but he did it every day.

Grandmaster George Dillman

Hardball I truely hope you are joking. No disrespect to Dillman but "the most dangerous man in Japan"...I don't think so.

Also, you may want to post in the Japanes and open access sections to get more responses

**Hardball** · 06-24-2005, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IPON

Hardball I truely hope you are joking. No disrespect to Dillman but "the most dangerous man in Japan"...I don't think so.

Also, you may want to post in the Japanes and open access sections to get more responses

Thanks for the suggestion. I'm not looking for quantity in responses but quality. So far the quality is decent, just need a couple of references on the medival knight. Ie. bibliographies, references. In fact I may do a google search.

blend · 06-25-2005, 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RYO9

Samurai were trained from a young age, about 7, in the arts of Iaido and Kenjitsu. when weapons were banned in Japan (1600-1850 roughly) they developed the art of Aikido.
Mullins

with all due respect for your efforts in assisting the poster's request, i'm having trouble with this statement. are you sure the art of aikido was developed in japan around 1600-1850? i understand aikido to be a modern art (like karate and judo) which developed from earlier forms of jujitsu (particularly daitoryu jujitsu). certainly many jujitsu forms flourished in this period which paved the way for aikido in the 20th century.

**Hardball** · 06-25-2005, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Brewer

Time Life Books had published a history encyclopedia years and years ago that dealt with human civilization through the ages. I'll do some research and get back to you, but since I do know some trivial aspects, I'll put them out there.

Medieval Knights did in fact train in particular styles of combat - at least as much as the samurai can be said to have done so. In european swordplay (along with all the other weapons) there were recognized tactics and techniques, strategies, and training. I know we've referenced it in other areas of this forum, but you need to look up and read (it's a struggle, but worth the effort) George Silver's "Paradoxes of Defense" and in my opinion more importantly "Brief Instructions on My Paradoxes of Defense." These are written I believe in the 1400's and describe the finer points of weaponscraft. Many times, warriors would develop their own style of fighting and pass it along to novices in training. They didn't wear gi's, but the idea is the same. "This technique helped me stay alive last time a guy with a sword tried to kill me, and it'll probably help other people stay alive under similar circumstances, so I'll teach it to anyone who'll listen." It was every bit as stylized and catalogued as asian martial arts, but the people who practiced it were, in my humble opinion, far more pragmatic about why they trained than were their asian counterparts. To the samurai, the tradition was as much the art as the winning of the battle. To the knights, behavior was more important than tradition, and the fighting was only important for what power, wealth, and security it would bring to one's home.

I'll do some reading over the next few days and post some more.

Mike

Thanks Mike, I'll be looking for your follow up post.

OmaPlata · 06-25-2005, 09:48 AM

my moneys on the knight

RYO9 · 06-25-2005, 12:30 PM

hardball, hey i can give you all the information you need but i only have one source. World History by A. Speilvogal, everything else is from my teacher's research.

Blend, yes it is true. The only thing modren about Aikido is it's recent rise in popularity. it was developed by a group of samurai who decided to follow the law set forth by the emperor of japan. while jiu jitsu also developed in about the same time period, Aikido was something taught only to samurai. the reson they share similar techniques is simple, the thechniques work. both parties realized this and intigrated them into the systems. as memtioned before the creators of aikido chose to follow the law, the ones who didn't develpoed weapons hidden in Bamboo or in their clothing. both parties of samurai preserved the arts of Iaido and Kenjitsu, while they chose different ways to approach it. you will also notice that in true Aikido schools there is extremely strict discipline, this was brought forth by the traditions of the samurai. if you take nothing out of what i have just posted, at least have the respect to never compair Aikido and Karate ever again.

Mullins

jubaji · 06-25-2005, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Brewer

Mullins,
I don't know why you sound so hostile and defensive about aikido.

Oh, you know why. Its because he's wants to imagine himself as 'a living embodiment of the spirit of the samurai' or some such childish romantic bs

Tant01 · 06-25-2005, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Brewer

....Medieval Knights did in fact train in particular styles of combat - at least as much as the samurai can be said to have done so. In european swordplay (along with all the other weapons) there were recognized tactics and techniques, strategies, and training. I know we've referenced it in other areas of this forum, but you need to look up and read (it's a struggle, but worth the effort) George Silver's "Paradoxes of Defense" and in my opinion more importantly "Brief Instructions on My Paradoxes of Defense." These are written I believe in the 1400's and describe the finer points of weaponscraft. .......

I'll do some reading over the next few days and post some more.

Mike

Paradoxes of Defense was published in 1599...

Another one of my many fighting "secrets" revealed....

http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/paradoxes.html

http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/brief.html

See also; http://www.musketeer.org/online.html

View Poll Results: After Reading this thread;;;;Knight or Samauri ??
Knight was better trained	9	18.00%
Samauri was better trained	41	82.00%
Voters: 50. You may not vote on this poll

06-24-2005, 12:21 PM	#1 (permalink)
Hardball Premiere Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,325	Medival Knight VS Japanese Samauri (sp) I am doing research about the Medival Knights and the Japanese Samauri. Not which one was toughest or best but simply the similarities, differences, philosophies, training, terrain and time period. Please discuss. Any references or bibliographies would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance for your participation. Bowing Out. __________________ The Way of the Warrior is Practice. Daily practice, accumulate practice minute by minute, hour by hour and day by day. {Book of 5 Rings} Mike Brewers 2008 Sit up challenge 45,000/100,000 running balance.(Crunches) Kicks 6,300/100,000 Last edited by Hardball; 12-04-2005 at 12:03 PM. Reason: delete pic

06-24-2005, 01:09 PM	#2 (permalink)
Blue Wave Gym Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: minnesota Posts: 960	hey hardball what about the ancient hwrang warriors or the monguls, bad dudes for sure,look at medeviel european ma web sites for info, also the society for creative anacroism where guys fight in armor with wooden weapons nuts!!! __________________ Tiens, voila du boudin, voila du boudin, voila du boudin Pour les Alsaciens, les Suisses, et les Lorrains Pour les Belges, il n'y en a plus, pour les Belges, il n'y en a plus Ce sont des tireurs au cul. Tireurs au cul

06-24-2005, 03:07 PM	#5 (permalink)
Hardball Premiere Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,325	If anybody has any first hand knowledge due to ancestors, feel free to contribute to the discussion. Bowing Out __________________ The Way of the Warrior is Practice. Daily practice, accumulate practice minute by minute, hour by hour and day by day. {Book of 5 Rings} Mike Brewers 2008 Sit up challenge 45,000/100,000 running balance.(Crunches) Kicks 6,300/100,000

06-24-2005, 03:27 PM	#6 (permalink)
millie Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 66	kata kata the one thing thats inportont is finishing lots of people start things but few finish a butter fly sits on a piece of shit and is perfectly happy, man by his nature is never happy on his piece of shit. practice kata 108 times a day

06-24-2005, 01:50 PM	#3 (permalink)
RYO9 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: State College, PA Posts: 116	Similarities: both had a fuedal contract Both had a code of conduct Differences: Religion Knights were more for the money style of combat Training: Kinghts trained from time they are old enough to use a sword or ride a horse. however there is no art that they used. Samurai were trained from a young age, about 7, in the arts of Iaido and Kenjitsu. when weapons were banned in Japan (1600-1850 roughly) they developed the art of Aikido. Terrain is irrelavent considering they both trained/fught on almost any type of terrain. Time Period: Kights- 700 AD-1750 AD roughly, they became just iconic symbols after that. Samurai- sometime aorund 400 AD- 1850 AD when the need for them was no longer there. I know a lot more this is just a starter. If you need more help let me know. Mullins

06-25-2005, 09:48 AM	#12 (permalink)
OmaPlata Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: san diego Posts: 1,404	my moneys on the knight

06-25-2005, 12:30 PM	#13 (permalink)
RYO9 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: State College, PA Posts: 116	hardball, hey i can give you all the information you need but i only have one source. World History by A. Speilvogal, everything else is from my teacher's research. Blend, yes it is true. The only thing modren about Aikido is it's recent rise in popularity. it was developed by a group of samurai who decided to follow the law set forth by the emperor of japan. while jiu jitsu also developed in about the same time period, Aikido was something taught only to samurai. the reson they share similar techniques is simple, the thechniques work. both parties realized this and intigrated them into the systems. as memtioned before the creators of aikido chose to follow the law, the ones who didn't develpoed weapons hidden in Bamboo or in their clothing. both parties of samurai preserved the arts of Iaido and Kenjitsu, while they chose different ways to approach it. you will also notice that in true Aikido schools there is extremely strict discipline, this was brought forth by the traditions of the samurai. if you take nothing out of what i have just posted, at least have the respect to never compair Aikido and Karate ever again. Mullins

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