Truth about American Pitbull terriers

GonzoStyles · 06-07-2006, 12:40 PM

After reading all the regurgitation of Media scare/fear tactics about the pitbull I decided to embark on an education project here at Defend.net
Especially since Breed specific legislation seems to be gaining momentum driven by irrational fears. First lets look at death from dog attacks.

Most dog attacks are the result of a combination of two things
BAD BREEDERS and BAD OWNERS.
to say that "its all in how you raise them" is bs, a dog with a genetic predisposition to human aggression, cannot be raised right. If you will look at the conformation requirements for temperment on the APBT (american pitbull terrier) you will see that ANY sign of human aggression is not allowed.

http://www.apbtconformation.com/temperament.htm

We can also see that overall a well bred, well socialized APBT does not have temperment issues. And possess a sound, calm mindset rivaling any breed

http://www.atts.org/index.html

this is the web site of the American Temperment Test Society, take a look tell me what you see, it is by no means definitive, but does show that the majority of properly bred APBT's ARE NOT vicious mankillers

so how are Pitbulls and American/English staffordshires responsible for the majority of the attacks?
Simple after dog fighting was made Illegal the popularity of pitbulls exploded, dogs were breed for color (bluepits) physical characteristics (rednose) and a size and stature unheard of during the reign of legalized dogfighting. Most pitdogs pre 1970's were 35-50 lbs average. These puppy mills in a desire to cash in on the popularity of the dogs, breed dogs that were out of temperment conformation in order to acheive greater size and the popular style of pit at the moment. Backyard breeders exacerbated this problem, and dogs that should have been put down were allowed to breed even sought after for these traits.

I am not condoning dogfighting by anymeans, but looking at it in a historical perspective, The traditional rules for dogfighting (not your backyard ghetto match) are very similar to gamecocks and even the olde English prizefighting rules for pugilists. They were even layed out in paper by a former Lafayette police officer Gaboon Trahan in the 1950's. This was a contest not about killing but about "Gameness" or the dogs willingness to fight on until the other dog refused to cross the scratch-line or one was killed. Despite the myth, in its legalized heyday 2 dogs were never simply thrown into a pit to "fight to the death" that came later on with the "Ghettoification"of pitbull fighting

http://www.gamedogs.com/pitrules.htm

If you read these rules you will see that the dogs were handled before DURING and after the fight by several people, often times not the dogs owner. This includes being seperated while fighting so that the down or turning dog had to "scratch" or cross a line towards the dog winning the fight to prove his gameness. If the down dog did not scratch the fight was over!

Now we can see why aggression toward humans simply could not be tolerated by a breeder fighting pits in the ring.
So is the pitbull an animal which can and will snap and go beserk at anytime?
lets see some video evidence of good breeding, training and temperment.

here is something you wont see in the media,

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...q=pitbull+papo

two MALE pitbulls playing, thats right to UNNEUTERED full grown male pits playing? how is this possible they should be tearing each other to shreds according to the media hype?
This is an example of two WELL BRED, WELL SOCIALIZED, and WELL DISCIPLINED pits, and beautiful examples of the two most popular pits types rednose and bluepit which are NOT breeds if you ask someone what bloodline their pit is and they say "he is a bluepit" or "he is a rednose" this means they know **** all about these dogs and chances are they could be ill bred/socialized!!

pits are also used by law enforcement

http://www.lawdogsusa.org/

search and rescue

http://www.sitmeanssit.com/content/vid16.html

these versatile dogs have even been trained for service dogs for the handicapped, they make great catch dogs for hunting wild hogs, the list goes on.

have you ever heard of another breed doing something like this?

OMAHA, Neb. (AP) - Two dogs whose breed has a reputation for being mean played the roles of rescuers for a woman who was being attacked by another dog. A red chow was on top of Angie Pecoraro, 22, in her yard on Monday when two pit bulls jumped over a fence and fought off the chow, Nebraska Humane Society spokeswoman Pam Wiese said.

Witnesses said the chow had bitten Pecoraro several times on her hands, arms and stomach, Wiese said.

An ambulance took Pecoraro to a hospital, where she was treated and released, Wiese said.

The Humane Society impounded the chow, and its owner was ticketed for not having the dog restrained and for harboring a dangerous animal. It will be quarantined to make sure it doesn't have rabies, Wiese said.
Tuesday April 12, 2005 6:23pm

the truth about pits is out there look around and see for yourself, yes I think its horrible and tragic that people are killed by them, but BSL (breed specific legislation) is not the way. IMO ALL dogs should be licensed and temperment tested those who cannot pass, should be SEVERLY restricted (ie kennels mandatory, not permitted outside off leash) if you are scared more of a pitbull than say a doberman pinscer, you are a victim of media hype, sorry to hear about that. Hope you get through it and can see the truth.

GQchris · 06-07-2006, 12:45 PM

good stuff... things I knew all along from the friendly Pit Bulls I've been around..

GQchris · 06-07-2006, 12:57 PM

Gonzo, thanks for all that info. that was awesome..

Sagacious Lu · 06-07-2006, 01:02 PM

You've got lots of good points in there. I'll add that historically the number of deaths each year stays consistant, while the breed responsible for the highest number changes depending on which breed of large dog is the most popular.

osopardo · 06-07-2006, 01:14 PM

Years ago, when this breed started to gain popularity, a friend bought a male and a female for the purpose of breeding and selling the pups. They were sweet-tempered, gentle dogs until one day an elderly neighbor walking by with her Jack Russell was attacked by both pitbulls. They literally tore the smaller dog apart and then tore half the lady's face off when she tried to rescue her dog by pulling it up by the leash into her arms.

The only provocation was that the Jack Russell "yipped" at them, as small dogs tend to do.

The judge ordered both pitbulls to be "put down" and sentenced my friend, who had never been in any trouble with the law, to be locked up in the county stockade for two days each week for 5 years (weekends or days off from work or school).

Pitbulls are exceptionally strong dogs with massive jaw bones and jaw muscles. Their teeth are short, blunt and directed inward, making their bites particularly damaging. Their attacks render more damage than most other dog breeds. They are specifically bred to fight other pitbulls. The breed needs to be allowed to die off through a methodical program spaying and neutering of new litters until there are no more breeding individuals, with heavy fines and criminal penalties for anyone dealing in "black market" breeding.

GQchris · 06-07-2006, 01:25 PM

I think yours is just biased con-Pit propaganda

GonzoStyles · 06-07-2006, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by osopardo

Years ago, when this breed started to gain popularity, a friend bought a male and a female for the purpose of breeding and selling the pups. They were sweet-tempered, gentle dogs until one day an elderly neighbor walking by with her Jack Russell was attacked by both pitbulls. They literally tore the smaller dog apart and then tore half the lady's face off when she tried to rescue her dog by pulling it up by the leash into her arms.

The only provocation was that the Jack Russell "yipped" at them, as small dogs tend to do.

The judge ordered both pitbulls to be "put down" and sentenced my friend, who had never been in any trouble with the law, to be locked up in the county stockade for two days each week for 5 years (weekends or days off from work or school).

Pitbulls are exceptionally strong dogs with massive jaw bones and jaw muscles. Their teeth are short, blunt and directed inward, making their bites particularly damaging. Their attacks render more damage than most other dog breeds. They are specifically bred to fight other pitbulls. The breed needs to be allowed to die off through a methodical program spaying and neutering of new litters until there are no more breeding individuals, with heavy fines and criminal penalties for anyone dealing in "black market" breeding.

your post is EXACTLY the reason this breed has a problem, did you "friends" look deep into the bloodline of the dogs they purchased? were they papered back at least 3 generations from a reputable breeder who has monitored their temperment? doubtfully.
Seems to me by your statements they were intent on becoming a puppy mill themselves, there by making the problem worse, were these dogs socialized with people and other dogs at an early age to determine their temperment?
once again I would highly doubt it.
So your "Friends" seeking to cash in on the popularity of the breed bought dogs of a questionable nature and by the indications had not scrutinized the bloodline of either of the dogs. And I would once again guess, but stop me if I am wrong, having failed to give them proper obediance training allowed them outside unrestrained and unmuzzled, sounds like very unresponsible dog owners to me. Thanks for providing a fine example of how people not pits are the problem.

**gregimotis** · 06-07-2006, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GonzoStyles

your post is EXACTLY the reason this breed has a problem... were they papered back at least 3 generations from a reputable breeder who has monitored their temperment?...
...were these dogs socialized with people and other dogs at an early age to determine their temperment?
... And I would once again guess, but stop me if I am wrong, having failed to give them proper obediance training allowed them outside unrestrained and unmuzzled, sounds like very unresponsible dog owners to me. Thanks for providing a fine example of how people not pits are the problem.

I appreciate your first post and the work you put into it; That said -

In my post on this subject in the other thread, I stated (paraphrasing) that not only were some breeds prone to aggression (in this case, we are discussing pits), but also thier owners know they are so prone even as many of those owners claim they are not.

Your quote here demonstrates exactly that poor rationalizing. Implicit in this statement is that Pits are safe IF: they have been monitored for three generations, Socialized with other dogs and people, and given obediance training, and not allowed outside unmuzzled. Brother, A breed of dog which needs that much control is the very definition of dangerous.

It's not relevant whether irresponsible breeders caused the problem or whether bad owners can excacerbate the problem through neglect etc. In fact, it's the worst irony that humans created the dogs this way and the dogs will pay the price.

Most dogs are not papered at all, much less three genrations.
Almost no dog owner owns a muzzle
Obiedience training is good, but hardly needed fo most dogs.

Sagacious Lu · 06-07-2006, 02:17 PM

I've heard the "poor breeding" argument before, although I'm not at all convinced that it holds water. I don't understand why people keep insisting there's a problem when fatal dog attacks are so rare though. Pit bulls (or german shephards, or rottweilers or great danes or chows for that matter) don't need to be defended because there is no epidemic of horrendous dog bites that needs to be addressed.

stabbychick · 06-07-2006, 02:42 PM

.............................

Sagacious Lu · 06-07-2006, 04:43 PM

I wonder of the people that are terrified of pit bulls even know what one is:

http://www.nokillnow.com/PitbullFindIT.html

stabbychick · 06-07-2006, 05:27 PM

.............................

EmptyneSs · 06-07-2006, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sagacious Lu

I don't understand why people keep insisting there's a problem when fatal dog attacks are so rare though.

they may be rare, but when they happen they are so ferocious and brutal that people dont care. they just dont want it to never happen again. now i dont know too much about dogs or pits, all i know of is what ive heard from the media so i guess i cant really comment.

however, ive seen some of the aftermath cuased by pitbull attacks, and they are fcking gruesome. just ask this lady, her face looks like a pile of lasagna

http://www.ogrish.com/archives/woman...p_30_2005.html

and isnt it true that pits have way stronger jaws than other dogs? shit man look at that womans face it was bitten right through. do other breeds of dogs have this kind of jaw power? cause if these dogs really have hardcore locking jaws then mabye we really should be concerned about them. again, i dont really know enough about the subject, just throwing in my 2 cents.

this dude here actually survived an attack by his pit and killed it. he was able to choke it to death. http://www.ogrish.com/archives/dog_o...n_13_2005.html

stabbychick · 06-07-2006, 05:53 PM

.............................

GonzoStyles · 06-07-2006, 05:58 PM

Locking jaws are another myth perpetrated by ignorant fear mongers pits do bite very hard their lineage includes dogs used for bull baiting, how ever they are no different structurally than any other dog, they can be seperated and were/are seperated during fights it just requires the proper-tool & knowhow.

Almost as long has this has been America there have been pitbulls, they were known by many names, only in the recent media frenzied, fear mongering culture have they attained a mythical status for attacking and killing people.

Here is a small amount of history

the pitbull was Americas mascot during worldwar1 our motto?

" I am neutral but afraid of none"

06-07-2006, 12:40 PM	#1 (permalink)
GonzoStyles Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 606	Truth about American Pitbull terriers After reading all the regurgitation of Media scare/fear tactics about the pitbull I decided to embark on an education project here at Defend.net Especially since Breed specific legislation seems to be gaining momentum driven by irrational fears. First lets look at death from dog attacks. Most dog attacks are the result of a combination of two things BAD BREEDERS and BAD OWNERS. to say that "its all in how you raise them" is bs, a dog with a genetic predisposition to human aggression, cannot be raised right. If you will look at the conformation requirements for temperment on the APBT (american pitbull terrier) you will see that ANY sign of human aggression is not allowed. http://www.apbtconformation.com/temperament.htm We can also see that overall a well bred, well socialized APBT does not have temperment issues. And possess a sound, calm mindset rivaling any breed http://www.atts.org/index.html this is the web site of the American Temperment Test Society, take a look tell me what you see, it is by no means definitive, but does show that the majority of properly bred APBT's ARE NOT vicious mankillers so how are Pitbulls and American/English staffordshires responsible for the majority of the attacks? Simple after dog fighting was made Illegal the popularity of pitbulls exploded, dogs were breed for color (bluepits) physical characteristics (rednose) and a size and stature unheard of during the reign of legalized dogfighting. Most pitdogs pre 1970's were 35-50 lbs average. These puppy mills in a desire to cash in on the popularity of the dogs, breed dogs that were out of temperment conformation in order to acheive greater size and the popular style of pit at the moment. Backyard breeders exacerbated this problem, and dogs that should have been put down were allowed to breed even sought after for these traits. I am not condoning dogfighting by anymeans, but looking at it in a historical perspective, The traditional rules for dogfighting (not your backyard ghetto match) are very similar to gamecocks and even the olde English prizefighting rules for pugilists. They were even layed out in paper by a former Lafayette police officer Gaboon Trahan in the 1950's. This was a contest not about killing but about "Gameness" or the dogs willingness to fight on until the other dog refused to cross the scratch-line or one was killed. Despite the myth, in its legalized heyday 2 dogs were never simply thrown into a pit to "fight to the death" that came later on with the "Ghettoification"of pitbull fighting http://www.gamedogs.com/pitrules.htm If you read these rules you will see that the dogs were handled before DURING and after the fight by several people, often times not the dogs owner. This includes being seperated while fighting so that the down or turning dog had to "scratch" or cross a line towards the dog winning the fight to prove his gameness. If the down dog did not scratch the fight was over! Now we can see why aggression toward humans simply could not be tolerated by a breeder fighting pits in the ring. So is the pitbull an animal which can and will snap and go beserk at anytime? lets see some video evidence of good breeding, training and temperment. here is something you wont see in the media, http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...q=pitbull+papo two MALE pitbulls playing, thats right to UNNEUTERED full grown male pits playing? how is this possible they should be tearing each other to shreds according to the media hype? This is an example of two WELL BRED, WELL SOCIALIZED, and WELL DISCIPLINED pits, and beautiful examples of the two most popular pits types rednose and bluepit which are NOT breeds if you ask someone what bloodline their pit is and they say "he is a bluepit" or "he is a rednose" this means they know **** all about these dogs and chances are they could be ill bred/socialized!! pits are also used by law enforcement http://www.lawdogsusa.org/ search and rescue http://www.sitmeanssit.com/content/vid16.html these versatile dogs have even been trained for service dogs for the handicapped, they make great catch dogs for hunting wild hogs, the list goes on. have you ever heard of another breed doing something like this? OMAHA, Neb. (AP) - Two dogs whose breed has a reputation for being mean played the roles of rescuers for a woman who was being attacked by another dog. A red chow was on top of Angie Pecoraro, 22, in her yard on Monday when two pit bulls jumped over a fence and fought off the chow, Nebraska Humane Society spokeswoman Pam Wiese said. Witnesses said the chow had bitten Pecoraro several times on her hands, arms and stomach, Wiese said. An ambulance took Pecoraro to a hospital, where she was treated and released, Wiese said. The Humane Society impounded the chow, and its owner was ticketed for not having the dog restrained and for harboring a dangerous animal. It will be quarantined to make sure it doesn't have rabies, Wiese said. Tuesday April 12, 2005 6:23pm the truth about pits is out there look around and see for yourself, yes I think its horrible and tragic that people are killed by them, but BSL (breed specific legislation) is not the way. IMO ALL dogs should be licensed and temperment tested those who cannot pass, should be SEVERLY restricted (ie kennels mandatory, not permitted outside off leash) if you are scared more of a pitbull than say a doberman pinscer, you are a victim of media hype, sorry to hear about that. Hope you get through it and can see the truth.

06-07-2006, 12:45 PM	#2 (permalink)
GQchris Registered User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Alameda County, California Posts: 756	good stuff... things I knew all along from the friendly Pit Bulls I've been around.. __________________ Owner of a lonely heart.. much better than a owner of a broken heart...

06-07-2006, 12:57 PM	#3 (permalink)
GQchris Registered User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Alameda County, California Posts: 756	Gonzo, thanks for all that info. that was awesome.. __________________ Owner of a lonely heart.. much better than a owner of a broken heart...

06-07-2006, 01:02 PM	#4 (permalink)
Sagacious Lu Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Liangshan Marsh Posts: 1,053	You've got lots of good points in there. I'll add that historically the number of deaths each year stays consistant, while the breed responsible for the highest number changes depending on which breed of large dog is the most popular. __________________

06-07-2006, 01:14 PM	#5 (permalink)
osopardo Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Hurricane Alley Posts: 170,033 Posts: 1,915	Biased Pro-pitbull Propaganda!!! Years ago, when this breed started to gain popularity, a friend bought a male and a female for the purpose of breeding and selling the pups. They were sweet-tempered, gentle dogs until one day an elderly neighbor walking by with her Jack Russell was attacked by both pitbulls. They literally tore the smaller dog apart and then tore half the lady's face off when she tried to rescue her dog by pulling it up by the leash into her arms. The only provocation was that the Jack Russell "yipped" at them, as small dogs tend to do. The judge ordered both pitbulls to be "put down" and sentenced my friend, who had never been in any trouble with the law, to be locked up in the county stockade for two days each week for 5 years (weekends or days off from work or school). Pitbulls are exceptionally strong dogs with massive jaw bones and jaw muscles. Their teeth are short, blunt and directed inward, making their bites particularly damaging. Their attacks render more damage than most other dog breeds. They are specifically bred to fight other pitbulls. The breed needs to be allowed to die off through a methodical program spaying and neutering of new litters until there are no more breeding individuals, with heavy fines and criminal penalties for anyone dealing in "black market" breeding. __________________ Le Bear Extraordinaire! *Mike Brewer's 2008 Athleticon Challenge!!!* Pushups Completed: 5 1/2 Situps Completed: Does using my hands count?

06-07-2006, 01:25 PM	#6 (permalink)
GQchris Registered User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Alameda County, California Posts: 756	I think yours is just biased con-Pit propaganda __________________ Owner of a lonely heart.. much better than a owner of a broken heart...

06-07-2006, 02:17 PM	#9 (permalink)
Sagacious Lu Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Liangshan Marsh Posts: 1,053	I've heard the "poor breeding" argument before, although I'm not at all convinced that it holds water. I don't understand why people keep insisting there's a problem when fatal dog attacks are so rare though. Pit bulls (or german shephards, or rottweilers or great danes or chows for that matter) don't need to be defended because there is no epidemic of horrendous dog bites that needs to be addressed. __________________

06-07-2006, 02:42 PM	#10 (permalink)
stabbychick Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 431	............................. __________________ Screw you guys, I'm goin' home... and I'm taking my posts with me.

06-07-2006, 04:43 PM	#11 (permalink)
Sagacious Lu Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Liangshan Marsh Posts: 1,053	I wonder of the people that are terrified of pit bulls even know what one is: http://www.nokillnow.com/PitbullFindIT.html __________________

06-07-2006, 05:27 PM	#12 (permalink)
stabbychick Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 431	............................. __________________ Screw you guys, I'm goin' home... and I'm taking my posts with me.

06-07-2006, 05:53 PM	#14 (permalink)
stabbychick Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 431	............................. __________________ Screw you guys, I'm goin' home... and I'm taking my posts with me.

06-07-2006, 05:58 PM	#15 (permalink)
GonzoStyles Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 606	Locking jaws are another myth perpetrated by ignorant fear mongers pits do bite very hard their lineage includes dogs used for bull baiting, how ever they are no different structurally than any other dog, they can be seperated and were/are seperated during fights it just requires the proper-tool & knowhow. Almost as long has this has been America there have been pitbulls, they were known by many names, only in the recent media frenzied, fear mongering culture have they attained a mythical status for attacking and killing people. Here is a small amount of history the pitbull was Americas mascot during worldwar1 our motto? " I am neutral but afraid of none"

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