BoarSpear

Uh huh they are called False flag operations JR. Israel and the USA specialize in them...Nice way to insult people with personal attacks there tough guy...careful you dont get a PENALTY CARD.

It's clear you're a little slow on this stuff so here's a couple REAL false flag operations to look up to get you started.

The King David Hotel bombings were carried out by the Israeli's but blamed on ...guess who?

The Gulf of Tonkin was a false flag operation By the USA used to give us an excuse to go to war in Vietnam....Gee SKIPPY real WARS are fought and nations ESTABLISHED on the back of False Flag ops...they're a little more real than people would like you to think.

HERQ454

Discussion was about 9/11.Not the Iraq war.
Thanks for neg rep.Didnt know you were that way inclined.

DickHardman

i think you guys should be thankful that there are people who are concerned enough about our country and troops to want to ask questions and want to know the truth. most people i know dont even want to talk about iraq or our countries problems, they would rather lose themselves to their hunger for brand names and trivial material objects. none of my coworkers at work ever talk about anything other than ps3, wii, or going clubbing.

Neltharius

Nothing wrong with that. In this day and age politics are what most easily divide an otherwise cohesive group. People don't have to always ponder "the big picture" and "the truth". Sometimes life is just meant to be lived, even in the workplace.

Neltharius

Not exactly. Only occasional avoidance. My main point was actually that many ties politics can take a back seat to many things, including video games. I'll get into that later.

Having been extremely politically involved in the past, I always come out of a series of debates very hostile, aggressive, and defensive, but emotionally drained, despite the fact that those heated debates were perfectly rational. Not to mention, every time I brought up politics, people would stop talking to me. That's when I realized that f I centered my life around politics, the large majority of my friends would no longer be on speaking terms with me. They are good people, but when passions are sparked, and they become in conflict, intense destructive debate is sure to follow. That, and the fact that when you bring up politics when people just want to have talk, they get very annoyed. Unfortunately I can do nothing to change that. I also realize that the discussions I have with my friends have little to no influence on what goes on nationally unless it's election year. We are just political enthusiasts. We do not really know the realities of the bureaucracies that exist, or how society looks like from the broader lens. In that sense, accomplishing something in a debate is about as hard as trying to explain to a goldfish that it swims in circles around a fish bowl.

The context that you presented is very different from national politics. A team is much smaller, more intimate, and manageable than a country. In small group settings where we want to get something done and we know we can do so, I encourage, facilitate, and even provoke heated discussion. That's my responsibility as a leader of the group. That's just the small scale though. As I mentioned before, not too much will get done if my friends and I talk about national politics all the time, so we might as well do some things that bring out positive emotions rather than negative ones.

IPON

Well you ar entitled to your opinion as well as I. I DID loose two friends in WT so don't tell me about insulting the memories of the victims. The insult is to not reveal the truth whatever the truth is. I started this thread (and prefaced I maight add) that it was not about conspiracy theories. There were some interesting points that were raised in teh film that I thought would be interesting for discussion. If you are not interested that is fine.

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IPON

Mike, again I prefaced this thread addressing that it was not about “conspiracy theories” nor do I consider myself a conspiracy theorist. However, IF you OBJECTIVELY watched the film instead a 2-3 point cliff note version you would find that regardless if you think the people that made the film are nuts they provided good research. Research that can be refuted, but not with a “guess” (this could have happed because or may have happened because). I didn’t list point because I wanted to people to watch the film, if I listed point people would only respond to the points.

Mike sorry, but you are not objective. To be objective you have to be open to receive information and you are not, you start from a perspective again that you know the answers and barely know what questions are being asked (from the perspective of the file. I actually was looking forward to your comments and others with military background on some of the technical parts just as I have approached others. I was curious what the board members had to say. BUT saying I am stupid and implying that I am un american is not appreciated and also shows your lack of objectivity. And before you rant and say “Show me any post where I specifically said IPON is stupid or that you are un-American” when you make general comments like the one, nuff said:

So basically we are American if we agree with your opinions, well I am sorry I don’t see the objectivity. Some of your points are acknowledged in the film. Why you assume that I immediately jumped to “conspiracy theories” OMG because there was something I saw at the twin towers. Mike I questioned it, and still maintain my question. Unlike you I never qualified it I thought it was odd how the build collapsed. I know engineers in different fields that thought it was equally odd. So don’t assume that you know things that you don’t. This is not the first time a jet plane hit one of the buildings in NYC but it is the first time a building collapsed, the merit of that point is worth discussion. Who did what and why is another discussion that is objective discussion. Then there is this explanation:

Umm, do I really need to discuss physics and why this is not an appropriate analogy to WTC? I refuse to believe that your thinking can be this simplistic and flawed.


Ockham’s razor is almost a circular theory when you take it out of the context of science. The fact is simply because the most simple explanation is not always the best, but axion in this context is one of the best ways to move away from potential truth (generally speaking).

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IPON

...........

Mr. Arieson

While I think there have indeed been conspiracies before (Kennedy, Iraq war) I think it is totally, 100% obvious to anyone with a half a brain that 9-11 was the work of Islamofaschists! There simply is no other culprit there.

People (especially on the internet) love hoaxes and conspiracy theories, and people have loved them ever since the first comet crossed the sky, or the first solar eclipse, or the first time they started finding and publishing fossils.

I guess it is just human nature to look for a complicated answer, when the simplest explanation is probably the correct one.

As for Kennedy: Jack Ruby was connected to the mob. Kennedy himself was beholden to the mob. The mob worked with the CIA to take out Castro. Pretty clear there was a "hit" that went wrong.

Iraq: The picture of Rumsfelt and Saddam shaking hands, plus the fact that we gave them the chemical weapons in the first place, the deals they had with France (who all of a sudden wanted no part of it) and many other factors: Iraq was all about punishing Saddam for a business deal that fell through, while doing a little sabre rattling in the gulf zone.

But 9-11? Just 19 crazy losers with a grudge, and no respect for human life. We may be bad, but they are far, far worse then us!!

HERQ454

What prompted me with the first post on this thread was an image of those passengers on flight 93 deciding to storm the cockpit of that flight,knowing they were going to die,but doing it so other countrymen/women of theirs would not.Irrespective of what nation you belong to,I believe,and I think everyone else does as well,to define what a heroic act is.
Ipon,my comments were not personnally at yourself,and feel sorry for your loss on that day.
A documentary that I had watched about why the twin towers failed descibed how the impact of the aircraft actually blew off the fire resistant material sprayed on to the metal structure of the building.With the intense heat and the weight of the structure above the impact,contributed to the warping of the beams which lead to each building coming down.
Yes I did not watch the documentary so I could be accused of dicussing a topic without being fully aware of the facts.But we saw those planes.we heard those cell phone calls.It was an act of terrorism.

IPON

This is not an easy topic for anyone. And I will agree with Mike that you being in Australia show how far reaching it is. This is the only film I saw regarding 9/11 and there was a lot of detail which I just thought would be good to discuss and refute or expand on. Maybe it was not such a good idea. Anyway, no problems bro, I may have taken your comment out of context.

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jubaji

Are people still going on about this conspiracy nonsense?

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IPON

I think you are right that is the best way to get the discussion going. The film was packed with (alleged) factoids so I think the best way is to start in sections (ie pentagon, WTC, flight 93) to refute can't refute or agree with the points made. I'll try get get this soon.

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A person who is said to be proficient in the arts is like a fool. Because of his foolishness in concerning himself with just one thing, he thinks of nothing else and thus becomes proficient. - Hagarkure

Uke

IPON, you were absolutely correct. This documentray of sorts produced more information on 9-11 than any other source. I can see why some were terrified to view it as it would shatter their unrealistic belief that our country is based on altruism.

This was very powerful and very informative. Regardless of the opposing views of those who commented without even watching it to digest the facts, there is something here to be learned by everyone.

You cannot argue with facts. You can argue with opinions, but not with facts.

I had heard many theories and speculations on what might have happened on 9-11, but nothing this comprehensive. Nothing this well researched. This provided actual interviews, video and audio evidence, and conclusions from scientists and demolition experts. Not to mention the fireman who were in the actual towers when it happened. This video actually had their actual transmissions!

I'd like to thank you for posting this. As a fellow New Yorker who was in the city when the crashes happened, many of the facts hit home.

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DickHardman

9/11 was the official beginning of the NWO. iraq was the first country to fall. who will be next????? are we all going to be living under one global power within the next decade??? our current usa leaders have violated our american constitution and laws repeatedly, using 9/11 and the war in iraq as excuses to do so.

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