GonzoStyles

But your opinion on this subject is more valid because you swallow some crybaby story about how the music industry exploits artists?
I guess your positive rap album was shelved by the executives at your label? What a crock just because someone happens to be stupid enough to sign away their artistic control you want me to blame the suits who "force" them into making this kind of music? cry me a river


artistic control

once again this is why artistic control is a crucial element for anyone who actually gives a damn about their music. Too bad these wanna-be stars never spent 15 minutes in a library making an attempt to understand the industry they are enslaving themselves to.


You keep talking about being "forced" when as a matter of fact they probably line up to sign away their rights, boo hoo the poor victimized rap artist!
You really expect anyone to buy this crappy excuse?
It is their own fault for signing up to be puppets of the music industry!

Very few artists have creative control? That is because they have dollar signs in their eyes while signing the contract, it is called negotiation, whose fault is it that they didn't learn enough about the music industry to see how important that kind of control is, but hey if someone wants to sell out why are you crying about it? Oh yeah its not their fault they were "forced" into it

and if in the recording contract that they were "forced" to sign, they retain total artistic control of their material no one can do a damn thing about it.


now the evil music executives are recruiting ignorant people just to make puppets out of them, well since this has been going on for 10+ years now you would think these "victims" being forced to "Ghettotize" their music would get the idea. But they really just don't give a damn or else they would make an effort to learn about the industry they plan on making a career out of.

Then what the hell is it?

then where are the albums done independently to help promote peace or stop drugs or the sexualization of women? You want to tell me that artists are bound for life by these contracts? You want to believe that they are controlled for life by this industry? You named a few rappers that are now producers, where are their positive albums or artists? I guess you make yourself believe this crap since you have refered to them as "slaves" stop fooling yourself, these artists could make sacrifices to put out the material you say is being suppressed, after their contract is up they could do anything they want but most just keep on putting out Thug & Ho music not because its what they know but because as you stated it is what sells.


Recording contracts are not for life and if any artists wanted to do a benefit album while under contract to help crack addicts or single mothers or hurricane victims their label would probably jump at the chance but you know what Uke?
They don't because they are just as guilty of wanting to making money from Thug & Ho music as the suits who "force" them into being "slaves" to the gangster rap image.

excuse me but I need a new box of tissues!

medic06

There are positive hip hop albums out there, you just don't hear about them. Now your being contentious just for the sake of contentiousness. . . . .

Tom Yum

The lyrics, beat and tunes create the mood, right. I'm a consumer as well but I don't actively try to emulate it either.

Every now and then a word will slip in but its more like "what's up brotha"

__________________

Love it, leave it or fix it.

medic06

You can train to hip hop without the derogatory lyrics.

GonzoStyles

this is where real hip-hop is, despite the lamentations of rapper Paris in the article Uke quotes, the underground is alive and well.


anyone in Houston should tune in to 91.7 KTRU Rice radio
(KTRU.org in realaudio) tonight at 10pm for "the Vinyl frontier" the host DL has been giving Houston its weekly does of underground hiphop for years.

Tom Yum

I've heard women call each other bitches and hos as terms of endearment.

__________________

Love it, leave it or fix it.

Uke

I don't want you to blame anyone or do a thing.

You entire post is full of "might's", "maybe's" and "probably's" because you are working off of your own limited knowledge of how the industry works. I didn't post the article to argue its validity. It already makes solid points that no one can refute. That's why you have to assume a lot in order to try to make your points.

How many poor people do you know, GonzoStyles? How many of them would do practically anything for $1,000,000? People go on Fear Factor all the time and eat bugs and do risky stunts for money. People sell drugs for money. Women sell their bodies for money. Poor people, or people who have lost their way due to drugs or alcohol, are desperate. You may not understand that, but record execs do. They understand that 90% of their talent comes from a background that doesn't have the financial stability or freedom to turn down seven figures just to rhyme. This isn't an excuse. Its a reality.

When a man offers artists millions of dollars to make a record, most of them don't even have an independent lawyer review the contract. Most won't negotiate because the money already exceeded their expectations. Some artists have gotten wise and attempt to own their masters and want bigger percentages of sales, but all in all its the newbies that get trapped.

No one asked you to cry a river for them, GonzoStyles. These men make millions. They don't need your compassion or pity. This article was written to show a side of hip hop that people like you never see but all to often judge without having and real facts or insight. Its amazing to me that so many people consider themselves authorities on an entire culture after only buying a few CD's.

This has been going on since radio and records were being mass produced in the USA. Its started with Blues. Then it carried over into Jazz. Then Bee-Bop. Then Rock and Roll. Then Hip hop. If you didn't know that exploitation of artists has been going on in this country for the last 90 years or so then you really are on the wrong topic.

Most people can learn all they want, but they still have to negotiate from a position of weakness because the label holds all the cards. Some artists are special, and their talent and act is so obviously great that labels will listen to their demands because they know other labels are dying to get them. But if you are just a low-key artists who makes a lot of sense without flash or a gimmick, the interest won't be there. Therefore, the opportunities won't either. People do shop around before they sign, but many times they sign with the lesser evil if the money is still right.

The underground is indeed alive and well, but there's no real money in the underground. You may not know that, but any real fan does. Any real artist does. Its not mainstream where they get airplay. You won't see their poster hanging in Tower Records. These men do it for the love of music and that's fine and admirable. But there are still poor artists who will gladly sign on the dotted line to to get that kind of cash just to live an easier life.

But don't boo hoo for them, GonzoStyles. They are living a lot more comfortably than you.

__________________
A solar panel 100 miles by 100 miles (161x161km) in the Mojave Desert (USA) could replace all the coal now burned to generate electricity in the entire U.S.

GonzoStyles

Uke first off don't start assuming anything about me because it makes you look like an ass.

I am not going to go into my life history with you just to get a "Ghettocard", I can validate my opinions without it

but put it this way I can remember as a kid when crack hit my neighborhood off Tidwell in Houston and convienance stores started stocking up on
"Brillio pads"

I know what a "You buy we fry" fish market is all about Uke do you?

I remember shopping at the day old bread market with my grandmother for me my sister and my 2 cousins that lived at her house, ever done that Uke?

So am I Ghetto enough to comment on urban society in America now?


and yes there is a trade off if you decided to go independent, the odds are you wont make millions, or any of that other crap, but at least you can sleep at night knowing you stayed true to yourself instead of being a "Slave" who was "forced" to "ghetto" up his lyrics.


All the victimization of artists you talk about is avoidable thanks to digital recording technology,and creative control.

In this modern age if an artist of any genre signs away his creative control they only have themself to blame. Artists have been taking control of the means of production since day one.

Now with digital recording technology you don't need a super label just to get into a studio and get a good recording, with the internet you don't even need a distributer you can sell your music online. So don't act like you have an insight into the industry if you don't know whats REALLY going on Uke.

Your just still making excuses and I am still punching holes in them.

treelizard

I wish they wouldn't.

Words are powerful, no matter what the intent.

One of my teacher said this to some city kids he was training once: "I am not a dog. And I advise you not to call my daughter a bitch."

__________________
http://www.dirttime.org

http://morewomeninmma.blogspot.com

medic06

That's kind of the whole point of the thread. There is positive hip hop out there but it doesn't get much play because the gansta rap BS gets shoved down everybody's throats.

Uke

This wasn't about being ghetto, GonzoStyles. Only a fool thinks that being poor makes you qualified to discuss the business aspect of the music industry. Its about having experience in the music industry to know what goes on so that you don't have to make assumptions like you've been doing. So save your "good ole days" stories for someone interested in hearing them. I'm discussing the article.

Next, digital recording technology will never be able to compete with the money that the big labels offer. It also isn't the same quality of production that the labels have access to. And selling your music online isn't the same as having your own street team and the right connections at radio stations nationwide to have your single played in heavy rotation.

There are many underground artists who have incredible skills that wind up producing mediocre music because they do it themselves.

What are you punching holes in, GonzoStyles? Truthfully, if what you say is true then the majority of artists wouldn't be in the predicament that they are in. If it were as cut and dry as you put it, then everyone who finds themselves in these situation must be extremely stupid, despite many artists being college educated.

You can argue your opinions, but you haven't argued the message in the article. You're not even on the same page as the rest of the discussion. The article doesn't excuse anyone from blame. It points out the fact that the "Gangsta" image in hip hop is largely due to what execs feel will sell. In the end, the execs have the creative power to make music violent and and profane, and they use it.

The execs exercise the right to do this despite the protests of the artists.

People like you view anything but your cut and dry assumptions as excuses. If it were that cut and dry the problem wouldn't be as big as it is. If it were so easily solved by what you say, then why not make millions as an artist advocate, who prevents artists from getting exploited? You won't because you can't because in the end, you don't have enough knowledge. You working off of your own ideas instead of working off of the reality of the situation.

__________________
A solar panel 100 miles by 100 miles (161x161km) in the Mojave Desert (USA) could replace all the coal now burned to generate electricity in the entire U.S.

medic06

Now you want to argue over a technicalities. . . . OK it's not being shoved down your throat.
You say you want clean hip hop, but you can't find it? Well I say horseshit to you too buddy! It's already been pointed out that it's out there.
You're being contentious for the sake of contentiousness.

DickHardman

its funny how blatantly some of the people on this thread are in here totally fronting about how words are powerful and whatnot when in a different thread they thought i was wrong to be offended by racial slurs and even stood up for the person using them.

medic06

Well, what can you say? This whole forum is steeped in hypocrisy. . . .

darrianation

**** you!

__________________
A liberal is someone who feels a great debt to his fellow man, which debt he proposes to pay off with your money. -G. Gordon Liddy

A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul. – George Bernard Shaw

NOBAMA!