Uke

I absolutely LOVE this reply. Gangsta hip hop is the most heavily marketed type of hip hop genre today, but its slowly moving towards the Southern "bling and rims" genre. If the industry execs choose what genre to market, and 80% of the hip hop they market is Gangsta rap, then how can medic06 be wrong when he wrote "its shoved down our throats"?

Lastly, when Mike Brewer wrote "Again, it's about personal accountability. If more people wanted "clean" hip hop, it would be sold in dump truck-loads. Blame the industry if you want, but supply really does follow demand", he must have forgotten that White males make up over 85% of all rap sales in the United States. That is a fact, not an opinion.

So that begs the question as to who really wants to see what images, now doesn't it? If its the consumers that lead record execs to believe that Gangsta rap is desirable, and 85% of the consumers who buy Gangsta rap are White, then I ask you who is at fault here?

In truth, most Blacks and Latinos don't need to buy Gangsta rap. Many of them have to live around people who actually do the things you hear about in songs. Most White people buy that kind of music because its a portal for them to take a look into a culture that they know nothing about, and rarely will go to experience. Its either network news or Hip hop music for them, and that's why they are so fascinated with the music.

Its nothing new. It was the same way with Blues. It was the same way with Jazz. It was the same thing with rock and roll. Music is just a portal for most people who don't live among the cultures who make it.

The humorous part about all this is that its the people who don't live among it but only are voyeurs who get their ideas through the music that have the most criticism about it ... even though they create the numbers that lead the record execs to believe that Gangsta rap is what the public wants.

That's the real horseshit.

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GonzoStyles

Funny you never related to us how your album was ghetto-fied by the industry Uke? Do you have any experience in the music industry?

highly doubtful. You simple expect us to take this article you posted on the recording industry as the be-all-end-all because it validates your belief that these multi-millionare artists are not responsible for the material and the image they put out. Thats Bullshit.

This once again shows you don't really have a clue about the topic Uke,
you make baseless statements to support your viewpoint. I allready mentioned Swishahouse here in Houston an Independent label and studio that is the hottest thing around America and the world as far as rap music is concerned. I wonder how their sub-par recording techniques and inadequte marketing team managed this without support from major labels?

And while "bleeding the block" helps, nothing promotes your album better than the internet if you don't know this Uke you don't have a clue as to whats REALLY going on in hip hop or music.



I am punching holes in your crybaby excuses about the recording industry and it's attempts to steer artists since its inception.

That being the case the artists should be quite aware of what they are getting into, Uke you act like these people roll through the hood and grab some kid rapping on a street corner who has no idea what goes on in the music industry. When in truth these artists have been trying to make it big for years and have no doubt heard first hand the horror storys about being too greedy and signing away creative control.
Which is basically what it boils down to. It is no one's fault but their own if they sign a contract and the only thing the pay attention to is the amount of zero's in the check.


Do executives rap? Do they cut beats? do they hold a microphone in front of thousands of people? Your whole excuse for the poor artists who sign away artistic control is a baseless tirade because you took offense to some forum members opinions of certain artists and wanted to convince us that it is the sinister workings of the music industry that makes violent profane rap

The article claimed there was no underground on the whining quote of a has-been (Paris) and I linked to a documentary thats shows what the underground is doing right now,since you seemed to need proof other than an article quoting a bitter militant rapper who can't get a major record deal.


Please tell me why should I be safeguarding artists? That is something they should handle on their own, you want to remove responsibility from the people who actually write, record and perform the music.
I am just telling you that is a piss-poor excuse for letting greed make you near-sighted. I dont feel any sympathy for that what so-ever so I have no desire to safe-guard rappers against the music executives.


And I never made assumptions Uke I just stated the facts.

Independent music is on the rise and still making the kind of music you claim is "forced" onto artists on major labels. Major labels steal artists from indy labels all the time but maybe you think they are "forced" into making millions

Artistic/creative control is a concept that ANY artist serious about themselves and their career should be familiar with. especially since it has been going on since the beginning of recorded music.

Are these artists signed for life to a major label?

Is the contract signed in blood?

No, these artists can finish out their recording contracts or battle it out legally if they haven't blown all their money on a new grill

Then re-negotiate, go on to another label, or start their own


the poor urban rap artists FORCED into a violent, mysogenistic image for life!

what a crock

medic06

No bias there . . .

GonzoStyles

Bias doesnt enter into it, I used Swishahouse because they are an independent label that is on top of the rap game right now, anyone who listens to rap knows this, the fact that they are from my hometown is just a coincidence considering I am not a fan of any Swishahouse artists and don't own any of their products.

Tom Yum

I agree with this.

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Uke

I won't waste time addressing all of your babbling, GonzoStyles.

First, I have never been a rapper. I've been involved in the industry on the management side. I have friends who were A&R. I also have friends who are artists.

Second, what does Paris being a has been have to do with the statements found in the article? Does him being a has-been make his statements any less credible? If it makes you feel better, Common, Dead Prez, Talib Kweli and Mos Def have all made the same statements. Not that it makes any difference, but you're nitpicking here to seem like you have a point.

Independent labels have made a rise, especially in the south. However, if you are trying to convince people that they generate as much money or have any where near the power and influence that the bigger corporate labels do, then you again show your ignorance.

No one said that record execs make people rap about violence. That's what you walked away with due to limited reading comprehension. What the article stated is that every new artist that is ready and willing to rap about drugs, violence and sex is heavily promoted, while artists who create more positive messages in their music are shelved and never see the light of day.

When you finally stop and actually do read the article correctly if that's possible, you'll see that "gangsta-fying" music does happen, but it doesn't just stop there. Artists who retain creative control aren't marketed at all, therefore all the radio plays is gangsta music.

And just so you know, rap in the south is largely based on rims, bling and the stripper culture. It receives just as much opposition as gangsta rap. Its less violent, but the elements of drugs and sex are still there.

Lastly, no one is asking you to do anything, GonzoStyles.
No one asked what you like, GonzoStyles.
No one asked for sympathy for the artists, GonzoStyles.
No one asked you to agree, GonzoStyles.

Your knowledge of contracts is non-existent. Do you realize that Puffy held Mace to his contract even after he retired? And that Mace had been trying to sign with G-Unit for a long time? When someone has you under contract, its what the execs say, not what you think, GonzoStyles. No one forced the artists to sign those contracts, but the money is the lure, and the contract is the trap, not the other way around.

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GonzoStyles

Because it would show that your just making a piss-poor defense of
dumb-ass cash fiends who sign anything put in front of them.

No your article spun the situation to make it seem as if the underground was non-existent, with a single, word-of-mouth source to validate this, my comment on Paris was to show his motivation for making such a statement.
The statement of "What underground" would be a flat out falsehood no matter who says it.

Your refusal to acknowledge to presence of Indy labels as a major force in the Industry shows YOUR ignorance. Indy's are beyond being the farm teams for the major labels and fast becoming a place where artists are involved in every step of the music.

Your claim of sub-par recording tecniques in Indy studios shows you REALLY don't know anything about music on the recording side.


Huh?


yeah ok! my comprehension of the article is fine I comprehended it as a bullshit excuse for greedy artists who sign a contract not knowing what it is.


No shit Chet? You must not even READ my comments Uke. I know exactly what the H-town sound is about, even though I am no fan of it personally.


My knowledge of contracts is non-existent? Well according to your defense of the self-enslaved rap artists I allready know more about contracts then all the retards who sign away their artistic control.

I don't know anything about Puffy and Mace but it sounds like Mace didn't read his contract and still owed Puffy recordings

Your confused Uke, they were trapped by their own greed, nothing else.

You contradict yourself when you state that this has been going on since the music Industry began, yet these artists get blind-sided by the corporate executives and their tricky contracts?

You basically mount a pitiful defense for people who put themselves in a situation knowing full well the history of the Industry.

My reading comprehension is just fine Uke, your comprehension of personal responsibility leaves something to be desired.

I am done since all you do is call into question shit that has nothing to do with this topic like my history associating with poor people, involvement in the rap industry and reading ability.

Keep on defending those ignorant cash fiends Uke, maybe one day you will make it into one of their entourages as the official contract reader!

medic06

Suuuuuuure it is . . . .

medic06

Any luck finding positive hip hop?

DickHardman

YouTube - Dr. Dre, Snoop Dogg - Nuthin' But A G Thang (Uncensored)

this is as positive as it gets.

medic06

Sorry Dick, but that's not it.

Uke

I have no argument or defense for people's greed, GonzoStyles. That has never been a point that I disputed, even though you constantly make this issue about the greed of artists. You driving point is that artists are greedy, which I've agreed with. Passed that point, what is your point?

IMO, everyone is greedy. Everyone uses and takes more than they need. Poor people who are presented with million dollar contracts are no different. There is no defense for them. They are desperate, poor people who would do anything to change their situations. Its the same reason why crack became such an epidemic in Black and Latino communities. People want to get ahead, even at the cost of their neighbors and family. However, crack didn't become a problem or receive the media attention that it did until it spilled over into White communities.

Its the same in this scenario in the record industry. The content of hip hop wasn't an issue until White children started listening to it. Once their parents found out, they began calling for it to be banned and some politicians even used it on their election platforms.

My point is that over 85% of all rap sales are made by White males, which means that Gangsta rap can only exist because it is perceived as a popular genre that consumers want to hear. Yet, the lascivious and violent messages found in Hip hop are seen as a Black problem instead of an industry problem. I find that fascinating when the majority of those who buy the so-called destructive and mind altering music are White.

Mike Brewer made an excellent point earlier ....

.... And I agree with that. It is about supply and demand. The execs are even more greedy than the artists because all they care about are numbers. They execs are the ones with the power to change the perceived image of hip hop, yet they are happy catering to those who buy the most rap music.

This debate is a futile because the criticism about gangsta rap music is largely from those who continue to buy it!

Its GonzoStyles intent here not to let the artists off the hook, which I never did. GonzoStyles also continues to pretend that I have tried to lay the entire blame on one group(record execs) when its never been about the entire blame. This article shows the role that record execs play in the marketing of rap music, which directly affects the messages that people associate with the Hip hop culture.

Regardless of the fact that artists are indeed whoring themselves once they sign crooked contracts, they lack the power to make the necessary changes for more positive hip hop. Independent labels like you mentioned do not command the power of powerhouse labels, whether you are honest enough to admit or not.

This entire debate comes down to who has the power to change the negative messages and images that we see and hear everyday. The artists under contracts don't, and we are not just speaking about washed up rappers either. I have stated today's artists like Kanye West, Talib Kweli, Mos Def, and Common have ALL said the same things that Paris has stated, yet you avoid that fact like the plague.

So, while you're pointing out that artists do have choices does ring true, does it have anything about who markets the music? Does it have anything to do with who gets play on the radio? If you think that the radio stations don't bow down to the Big Labels then you're either naive or need to learn a lot more. That's why we referred to the "industry" and no just record labels. The industry .. the artists, the producers, the studios, the record labels, the radio stations, the concert halls ... they are all tied in together, and they are not going to go against someone with as much pull and influence as Russell Simmons or Sean Combs.

The biggest underground star right now is probably Immortal Technique, who send powerful messages and a positive vibe in his music. He'll tell you that he isn't making any real money. He'll tell you that he does what he does because he loves the music. That's admirable, but its not something you'll see everyday. Its so rare to find an artist like that. He has incredible talent, material, and a huge following. Yet, there is little money for him.

Why is that? He's as underground as underground gets. Is it because he made all the wrong decisions? Is he whoring himself? He's just as talented and has more stimulating messages in his music than damn nearly anyone from the south. His following is worldwide. But the money he would get from signing with someone like Puffy or Jay-Z would be exponentially greater than what he's making now. But do you know what? Immortal Technique also knows that his lyrics would never make it to mainstream radio no matter how positive or educational they are, because they are controversial. That decision would be made by record and radio execs, not Technique.

The lure of millions is too much for most people to resist. In a country where 2% control 90% of the wealth, that kind of money represents a once in a lifetime chance to change their situation. Now, I'm not defending greed here. That's reality. If you feel that a young man is a dumb ass cash fiend because he would rather make music than sell crack or gang-bang, that's you're opinion. We will continue to see that differently, GonzoStyles.

But since when did making rap music become an evil, selfish act? ESPECIALLY when the main consumers won't buy anything else but Thug and Gangsta music? Its free expression. And thug and gangsta music would shrivel and die if people didn't want to hear it.

I guess Red Foxx, Bill Cosby, Richard Pryor and Eddie Murphy are also dumb ass cash fiends because most of their material was objectionable to a large part of America. They were lewd, dirty, sexual and to some they were just plain rude. But they were all funny, and people came to see them in record numbers. They cursed, talked about having sex, they even talked badly about the President. Still, people paid to come out and see them. It was free expression.

So in the end, passed all your talk about Indy labels that don't have the clout to go against the bigger labels and greedy artists, it still all comes down to who has the power to change the state of the rap music game. Its not the artists. Its not a "Black" problem as it is so often perceived as they don't even make up 10% of all rap sales in the United States.

Seems to me that its like Mike Brewer said. Its about the Record execs(supply)and Gangsta rap fans that buy the CD's, DVD's and records(demand). This problem couldn't even exist without them.

Let's be truthful for moment here. No one here really has a problem with Gangsta or Thug rap per se. The real problem is that those genre's have become mainstream, and so those are the messages that are taken in and perceived as what rap music offers. If Gangsta and Thug rap were small, underground genres then no one would really have a problem because the attention would go to other rap that sends more positive messages.

This last revelation goes even further to prove that this entire debate is about who has the power to change the problem, not who has a hand in contributing to it.

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jubaji

Of course it is.

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Uke

And you would know how? You wouldn't have the balls to approach a woman let alone have the opportunity to call her anything to her face.

The only context you'd use "bitch" in is to describe the woman once you didn't get the time of day.

But then, not knowing a thing has never stopped you from posting before so you were expected to poke your head out of your gopher hole at some point. I guess you weren't receiving that much needed attention you thrive on so you thought you'd make an appearance to show us that you're still breathing.

You're a bit out of your element here, bunny. If we ever get around to discussing taiko drums, we'll give you a call.

__________________
A solar panel 100 miles by 100 miles (161x161km) in the Mojave Desert (USA) could replace all the coal now burned to generate electricity in the entire U.S.

GonzoStyles

Uke is right! I found the real Gangstas!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!