Combustible salt water?

Tom Yum · 06-30-2007, 03:41 AM

A television station engineer accidentally discovers salt-water combustion while working on a cure for cancer...I know, sounds like a strange convoluted story but its true.

The chemistry behind this should be interesting - splitting water is actually endothermic, which consumes heat.

Tom Yum · 07-02-2007, 11:00 AM

What causes the ignition?

A simple theory: the solvation of salt in water lowers the energy required to split the water molecule, which is why low energy RF-waves are able to break it down into hydrogen and oxygen.

As hydrogen is formed, it mixes with air and spontaneously combusts with oxygen, releasing heat/light and reforming water??

A more complicated theory: the solvation of salt in water lowers the energy required to split water, but changes the pathway involved, creating a step where a peroxide is formed after water is broken down - peroxides are combustible - but formation of a peroxide requires different conditions...hmmm...maybe not so likely?

I really don't know???

Garland · 07-02-2007, 03:23 PM

I know that salt water has a lower boiling point than water...but salt water can seperated out again.

NaCl -> H20
(take some water and put some mu'fuckin' salt in it...yo)

NaCl+H20 -> NaCl H20
(be all like...letting that shit evap-o-mo-rate, effectively seperating the salt from da water, and shits.)

If you want to see water straight blow the **** up...Put a big bowl of water in the microwave for like 5 minutes on high. Get ready for some deep, scalding, sizzle-rific burns.

eXcessiveForce · 07-02-2007, 03:36 PM

if you pump enough energy into just about anything you are going to get it to burn.

the problem is the energy is going to balance. The energy to create the separation is going to be equivalent to the energy output of the water recombining.

However you are going to get loss due to what ever mechanisms you are going to use to harness the released energy.

Garland · 07-02-2007, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eXcessiveForce

if you pump enough energy into just about anything you are going to get it to burn.

Can I make it work with pimp energy?

eXcessiveForce · 07-02-2007, 03:51 PM

I've heard you don't have enough of that to recharge a nine volt.

Garland · 07-02-2007, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eXcessiveForce

I've heard you don't have enough of that to recharge a nine volt.

Me? Oh hell no!

I can run dem disco lights with that shit...
I just try to make sure I don't get too funky, or else I might kill off the fish living in my platforms.

Tom Yum · 07-02-2007, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garland

I know that salt water has a lower boiling point than water...but salt water can seperated out again.

NaCl -> H20
(take some water and put some mu'fuckin' salt in it...yo)

NaCl+H20 -> NaCl H20
(be all like...letting that shit evap-o-mo-rate, effectively seperating the salt from da water, and shits.)

If you want to see water straight blow the **** up...Put a big bowl of water in the microwave for like 5 minutes on high. Get ready for some deep, scalding, sizzle-rific burns.

Garland, you're confusing a physical change with a chemical change.

Salt can alter the boiling point of water and melting point of ice - but these are related to physical changes, not chemical changes, where matter is re-arranged.

Tom Yum · 07-02-2007, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eXcessiveForce

if you pump enough energy into just about anything you are going to get it to burn.

the problem is the energy is going to balance. The energy to create the separation is going to be equivalent to the energy output of the water recombining.

However you are going to get loss due to what ever mechanisms you are going to use to harness the released energy.

If you look at a table of the electromagnetic spectrum (all forms of radiation), radio-frequencies are not high in energy.

eXcessiveForce · 07-02-2007, 08:32 PM

Tom,

have you ever used a microwave? People have been burned very badly from Radar emitters.

Same concept.

Without knowing the energy input there is no way to even begin to know or decide how much energy you will get out of the reaction.

But conservation of energy says, that the reactions will be equivalent.

Garland · 07-02-2007, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Yum

Garland, you're confusing a physical change with a chemical change.

no wonder I don't do well with chemistry.

Tom Yum · 07-02-2007, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eXcessiveForce

Without knowing the energy input there is no way to even begin to know or decide how much energy you will get out of the reaction..

This is true. All we have to go by is the demonstration of the guy putting his hand on the path of the RF waves (hand not burning), then putting a light bulb in the same path, causing the light to light up.

The energy level is atleast the energy level required to light up the bulb and apparently enough to make a test-tube of salt water combust!

Quote:

Originally Posted by eXcessiveForce

But conservation of energy says, that the reactions will be equivalent.

Check the Laws of Thermodynamics. I think what you're getting at is the first law of thermodynamics - that energy is conserved; that is correct.

But this TV station engineer discovered a way of converting chemical potential energy of salt-water + radiant energy from RF-waves into heat and light energy in a way never done before.

I can't think of a time when I've ever heard water combust into flames; the closest example I can think of is spontaneous combutions of people (since we are mostly water) but that's been listed as an urban legend.

Otherwise, I think the water is somehow split into something more combustible (hydrogen) that combusts with oxygen in the air.

06-30-2007, 03:41 AM	#1 (permalink)
Tom Yum Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Here and there. Posts: 11,307 Groans: 1 Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts	Combustible salt water? A television station engineer accidentally discovers salt-water combustion while working on a cure for cancer...I know, sounds like a strange convoluted story but its true. The chemistry behind this should be interesting - splitting water is actually endothermic, which consumes heat. __________________ Love it, leave it or fix it. Last edited by Tom Yum; 07-02-2007 at 10:53 AM.

07-02-2007, 11:00 AM	#2 (permalink)
Tom Yum Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Here and there. Posts: 11,307 Groans: 1 Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts	What causes the ignition? A simple theory: the solvation of salt in water lowers the energy required to split the water molecule, which is why low energy RF-waves are able to break it down into hydrogen and oxygen. As hydrogen is formed, it mixes with air and spontaneously combusts with oxygen, releasing heat/light and reforming water?? A more complicated theory: the solvation of salt in water lowers the energy required to split water, but changes the pathway involved, creating a step where a peroxide is formed after water is broken down - peroxides are combustible - but formation of a peroxide requires different conditions...hmmm...maybe not so likely? I really don't know??? __________________ Love it, leave it or fix it. Last edited by Tom Yum; 07-07-2007 at 12:56 AM.

07-02-2007, 03:23 PM	#3 (permalink)
Garland Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Salt Lake City Posts: 5,013 Groans: 1 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	I know that salt water has a lower boiling point than water...but salt water can seperated out again. NaCl -> H20 (take some water and put some mu'fuckin' salt in it...yo) NaCl+H20 -> NaCl H20 (be all like...letting that shit evap-o-mo-rate, effectively seperating the salt from da water, and shits.) If you want to see water straight blow the **** up...Put a big bowl of water in the microwave for like 5 minutes on high. Get ready for some deep, scalding, sizzle-rific burns. __________________ homo homini lupus

07-02-2007, 03:36 PM	#4 (permalink)
eXcessiveForce Excessive Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Missouri Posts: 2,907 Groans: 0 Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post	if you pump enough energy into just about anything you are going to get it to burn. the problem is the energy is going to balance. The energy to create the separation is going to be equivalent to the energy output of the water recombining. However you are going to get loss due to what ever mechanisms you are going to use to harness the released energy. __________________ eXcessiveFORCE. If you must use force, make it excessive. www.b-prime.com A success and achievement community

07-02-2007, 03:51 PM	#6 (permalink)
eXcessiveForce Excessive Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Missouri Posts: 2,907 Groans: 0 Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post	I've heard you don't have enough of that to recharge a nine volt. __________________ eXcessiveFORCE. If you must use force, make it excessive. www.b-prime.com A success and achievement community

07-02-2007, 08:32 PM	#10 (permalink)
eXcessiveForce Excessive Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Missouri Posts: 2,907 Groans: 0 Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post	Tom, have you ever used a microwave? People have been burned very badly from Radar emitters. Same concept. Without knowing the energy input there is no way to even begin to know or decide how much energy you will get out of the reaction. But conservation of energy says, that the reactions will be equivalent. __________________ eXcessiveFORCE. If you must use force, make it excessive. www.b-prime.com A success and achievement community

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