finalfrontier

Well…well…well, here’s something for all the pro-war goons to contemplate, (if your capable).

http://www.funnyblock.com/video/Dick..._Quagmire.html

DickHardman

so what this video proves is that our soldiers have intentionally been put into an unwinnable situation with the full knowledge and support of those who lead our country. all the problems our military has encountered in iraq was stated in 94 by cheney. the question is why?? why did we fallow a flawed strategy that was known to have been flawed 9 years before we took over iraq?? doesnt this anger any of you people or do you guys just pretend like its not really happening like you some of you have done when other evidence has come to light?

Mr. Arieson

Because Karl Rove did a genius job of making sure anyone that was against the war was painted as being soft on terrorism. Anyone complaining was made to feel like a traitor. And because people considered John Kerry a liar, he was somehow percieved as being many times more corrupt then the current administration. Funny, considering not too many Cindy Sheehans were protesting the initial war in Afghanistan. It was only until the admininstration started saying that Iraq was behind 9/11 that some of us started to think, "what the hell are we doing?" Not one of the 9/11 hijackers was Iraqui. Of course. That bit of info always seems to get lost in the mix.

They have done the same thing with global warming. I have a friend who tells me "it's bad science" because Rush Limbaugh and John Ziegler and Matt Drudge say so. I tried to tell him how several conservative think tanks actually offered cash to any scientist willing to dispute the facts publically. They found a few, and it was enough to sow doubt in the minds of those home schooling types. The fact is, the majority of scientists are in agreement that there is global warming, and it is man-made. But Karl Rove and people who think like him, are really good at skewing facts in thier direction, and then making you feel like a commie if you disagree.

I always say, follow the money. It was big business working with conservative think tanks that injected just enough doubt in the science behind global warming.

Mr. Arieson

And here is my prediction for the future: If they ever discover life on any body in our solar system (Europa, titan, mars, ect..) the right wing radio hosts will say it is not true, and "bad science". They will find a scientist who will say that the samples were contaminated with earth based microbes. My prediction is they will do and say anything to squash the truth. believe me, there are enough people who don't want any evidence of life on other worlds found.

And Rush Limbaugh does not even have to do or say anything to contest the evidence. He just needs to laugh in that sarcastic way that he does, mention Hilary Clinton's name a few times, talk about football and his captive audience will nod thier heads in agreement. Hang the facts! It's all spin.

Tom Yum

Can't view the video? Is there an original source?

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Tom Yum

Science always gets a bad rap, even from its own. Wasn't it Lord Kelvin, the renowned mathematician and physicist who said "Heavier than air flying machines are impossible!".

Science seems to have its harshest critics inside its own circles; the loudest critics are usually outside the field of science, that's why they've got to be so loud, right?

You've got to be extra crusty to handle the nay sayers. It would be different if they got paid per critique, but they do it for free lol.

I'll take to some of Mr.Limbaugh's political ideas - some of which are noteworthy and good, but the man isn't a scientist, meterologist, geologist etc.

Everone is entitled to an opinion, no matter how different or original that opinion seems. Take a man whose 5'11" and 178 lbs. Some people might call him short and skinny, some might call him tall and fat, others might call him stalky and yet others might call him puny.

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DickHardman

YouTube - Cheney '94: Invading Baghdad Would Create Quagmire C-SPAN

DickHardman

im still wondering why there is no outrage over this. people accuse me of terrorism simply for posting a couple liveleak videos, yet nobody cares when its revealed that our troops have been intentionally put into an unwinable situation that has caused much death and destruction. i guess thats just how it goes.

Toudiyama[NL]

There wasn't any sex involved so th majority of the US will not be outraged they have been lied to

For those who still think the invasion of Iraq was legit, I ask you why?
Because you got rid of a Dictator? Would be the first time, in the past the US has been suporting a number of dictators, why all of a sudden this shift? To spread democracy....how about when the people would vote for a communist regime?(or a theocracy) Would the states allow them (after all it is the people choosing)

Mr. Arieson

Look, it was just to kick ass. ANY ass. Did not matter. Someone had to answer for 9-11. Oh, I know there are the "fight them there so we don't fight them here" crowd, but how serious are they really about that?

Any number of terrorists can walk right across our border anytime they want, petition a name change to something hispanic sounding, and they are in business!

If you are serious about protecting this country, you shut down the border for good. Build a 700 mile fence manned with armed sentries, dogs, heat seaking weapons and aircraft patrols, and above all, you deny any more student visas to anyone of middle eastern descent, ages 18 to 50. Period! Especially if they have bulging eyes!! Racist? You bet. Who cares. I don't want my parents blown up simply for going to work.

There is a right way and a wrong way to handle this thing, and I am not "soft on terrorism" for not wanting to go to Iraq. I would personally shoot a terrorist if I caught one. A terrorist, NOT an insurgent because they are the same thing only in the minds of the extreme right wing.

I always go back to the Tim McVeigh argument: If a few Al-queda were in Iraq, that does not make it the main stronghold. Any more then since Tim McVeigh was an american, america itself is harboring terrorists. We executed Tim McVeigh. What do you think Sadamm Hussein did to any terrorist that he caught?

Woodchipper. Remember, he never wanted any competition.

Tom Yum

Despite unequivocal media coverage, the war in Afghanistan began in October 2001; the war in Iraq began in March 2003. Why the Iraq war? There's more to it than any of us will know...

I believe a wall is under construction. The Army Corps of Engineers is no longer handling the construction - now laid in the hands of the Border Patrol, more than likely a set back.

USMC is down there, plus some newly created special police response teams. Filling in the gaps are a few additional non-government related groups interested in keeping our borders safe (Minutemen?).

There's more to the Iraq war than we'll be able to appreciate. We don't view the same intelligence reports that the President gets too.

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Mr. Arieson

Tom, if the president had anything, with his low approval rating he would release it. Definitive proof would take the wind out of the sails of any doubters and leftists and liberals, and guarantee the republican party another 100 years of majority. As it is, the only reason the republicans are going to win this next election is because us democrats can't produce anyone better then Hilary, and you just got to know she ain't gonna win, no matter what!!

As it is, the next democratic president won't be until 2012. But, if this Iraq debacle was proven beyond a doubt to the american public (not the half that listens to Rush Limbaugh, of course) to be a just cause, you guys would guarantee yourself a permanent majority for a long time. Right wing radio has done far too much damage to democrats at this point, (painting us as being almost a bunch of fags for not agreeing with you) so the only thing you got against you in the american public's eye is the spectacle of another Vietnam, with all the body bags coming home. Believe me, if Bush had something that we don't know, I think it would have been said, or at least leaked out by now. And I am not talking about yellow cake or Condoleeza's mushroom clouds over new york city, I am talking about absolute proof that 9/11 and the cole and other acts were created and invented by Sadamm Hussein. I wish there was that kind of proof, because it pains me to see pictures of crippled, amputee americans and think it is for practically no reason. I don't want to have to think that, you know? I was one of those guys, a long time ago, and I don't look at them as being just cannon fodder or pawns in some game. In the end, I want them home building a fence, and standing by it, watching and working with the border patrol.

DickHardman

going to iraq has caused the death of so many people, and its destroyed so many families, literally and figuratively.

its increased terrorism, incited fanaticism, made us more enemies at home and abroad, created/inspired other insurgencies around the world, hurt the relationships we have with our allies, lowered our standing in the world, cost us tons of money, and its only getting worse.

how has going to iraq benefited us americans??

Tom Yum

I'm detecting sarcasm....lol.

How can you be so sure?

There could be a number of reasons for the President starting the war in Iraq.

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Mr. Arieson

Because, as you know, the last two elections were very, very close. Gore lost because of the association with Bill Clinton/Monica Lewinski and because he was "stiff and wooden", and Kerry lost because of swift boating. If not for those things, there is a good chance they would have won. With the way Bush caters to mexico, you know he will do anything to tip that close balance with the voting public (he wants to convert the hispanic voting bloc). I am fairly certain if there was proof beyond "it must be true because Rush Limbaugh says it is", Bush would have presented it. Please don't mention national security, because that did not stop these people from outing Valerie Plame. Right wingers are the only ones that believe Iraq was justified, and facts are, they are only 48 to 52% of this country. To win all elections consecutively, you need to get the other half on your side. Any real evidence (like the attack of pearl harbor with obviously japanese zeros) would be released, for political reasons.

And to counter the argument some right wingers say about a "bigger picture" and "this is not about 9/11, but a separate issue"-right wingers reported Al-Queda agents meeting with Sadamm's agents, and definitely linked Sadamm to Al -queda in the public mind, only they were very clever about it: They implied that linkage, but also said this was about Iraq's failure to comply with UN resolutions. That way, if one does'nt sell, the other will. Either way they wanted this war really bad.