jubaji

What role has cultural difference/understanding/misunderstanding/communication/competance played in your training or the training of folks you know over the years? Can it be eliminated from all training situations? Should it be?

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Michael Wright

Good question.

I got into martial arts to learn how to fight. Throughout the course of my years of training, across a range of arts and cultures, all I found in observing the cultural formalities of each art is that it just provides barriers to honest training. Bow this way in one class, bow another three ways in another class, call a punch this but make sure you don’t call it that, don’t talk to the instructor talk to the next in command, wear the correct uniform, don’t show this logo or flag, know your place, don’t mix with the senior grades etc etc etc.

There are no cultural formalities of any kind in my training group. There are no lines, no bowing, no titles, no uniform, no terminology, no seniority, no pretence of spiritual or cultural teaching. We’re a bunch of friends who get in a room, wear what we want, call each other by our first names, a punch is called a punch, and no one has to observe any form of ritual from another culture. We are there for one reason - to help each other improve.

People say you should show the proper respect, I think respect is shown when someone walks in my door and pays their money to train with me, thats their respect. From that point on I need to show them the respect of doing my job and not wasting their time with superficial bullshit.

Everything else, just exists to uphold someone else’s belief system and support their image of superiority.

Tant01

Cultural aspects of certain styles are interesting in some respects. The type that comes to mind is a certain reverence for the blade. Like it has some magical mythical powers of it's own.

I don't buy into the "spirit" of steel but out of respect, I don't belittle their belief system. If they choose to think the blade has super natural powers I'm not going to argue with him and explain that it's inanimate... A composition of carbon and iron and other trace elements... without a soul...etc...

We tend to value life more when we realize just how fragile it is. I think there is something to be said for cultural aspects of training martial arts. Just not sure how relevant it is to western thinking...

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While the old form, jujutsu, was studied solely for fighting purposes, Kano's new system is found to promote the mental as well as the physical faculties.

T. Shidachi, 1892

Liberty

Someone ought to make a t-shirt or poster out of this - priceless, Michael!

At the same time, I'd say you have just described another culture. Where those with some sort of mutually noble intent, will fit within, while others - the low lifes, wll not. There are cultures for that as well. Where respect and intent is measured and or gained by other means all agree to within that particular culture.

In fact, I'm often fascinated by how much that goes on, on forums - both the understanding and misuderstandings have to do with the personal culture one is perceiving things from.

It can't be helped, human beings, when collective, begin merging into some sort of norm between themselves that expresses their most basic, often unspoken agreements. The brain's way of striving for efficiency and all that.

I've always had a fascination with this type of stuff.
I'd agree that when signs of respect become some sort of Totem Pole used by others for their b.s. agendas - as is way too often the case - it might be time to go elsewhere.

Again, Michael - priceless!

Ghost

For me its been pretty easy, apart from when i was in japan it was a bit formal and i didnt like that at all. I didnt stay long because of it. Thailand was a piece of cake though, much like being in the UK really.
I useed to do kung fu in the UK wushu and san shou. that was ok, not strict, i did karate for a bit too and that was fairly strict and in the end i didnt like it.
In my opinion it slowed the learning experience terribly.

Overall id say every time ive encountered formality in martial arts its made training harder but in all the wrong ways. Harder to ask questions, harder to get info, harder to progress. Formality in martial arts simply means less communication.

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Favourite animal: Liger, bred for its skills in magic.

“Anyone can give up, it's the easiest thing in the world to do. But to hold it together when everyone else would understand if you fell apart, that's true strength.”

John McCain promo vid:
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jubaji

That seems a little different than what Mr. Wright was talking about. That sounds like you failed.

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Ghost

no lol, it was just a bit silly and i dont like working in that environment, i dont see the point in training like that if i dont enjoy it.
Ive never been one for formality and im not very good with dealing with artificially imposed authority.
In terms of what i was doing it was ground fighting which was easier training that what i was doing in thailand.

__________________
Skills: Numchuck skills, bow hunting skills, computer hacking skills.
Favourite animal: Liger, bred for its skills in magic.

“Anyone can give up, it's the easiest thing in the world to do. But to hold it together when everyone else would understand if you fell apart, that's true strength.”

John McCain promo vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWS-F...eature=related

aseepish

After a couple of years training in JKD I moved to a small town on the coast. My choices for training were either Shito-ryu karate or Bujinkan ninjutsu.

Let's just say that JKD culture kind of spoiled my taste for TMA. I felt I had to quit before I picked up any bad habits. Like Ghost said, strictness hindered the training.

Running around the woods at night with the ninjas was fun. The class was informal, we were encouraged to experiment with the techniques. The big moment of culture shock came when some high ranking dude from England came for a seminar. The look of shock on everyone's face when I pulled out a notebook and started writing! Someone took me aside and explained that the dude was sharing secret techniques with us and note-taking was disrespectful.

As far as other cultural aspects are concerned, I never found them much of a hinderance. I lived in Japan for three years - that gets you used to bowing out of sheer reflex. In Thailand, the same thing goes with the wai.

My judo instructor had a great take on formality. He had us line up at the end of class stand at attention, and the most senior student would lead us in:

"Now it's time to say goodbye
"To all our company.
"M-I-C-K-E-Y
"Why? Because we like you!
"M-O-U-S-E."

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"It was about that time I realized that searching was my symbol, the emblem of those who go out at night with nothing in mind, the motives of a destroyer of compasses." -Cortázar

jubaji

Now it really sounds like you failed, in more ways than one.

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Ghost

are you in one of your moods again.
cant you be useful and post pics of hot women again rather than your PMT rants.

__________________
Skills: Numchuck skills, bow hunting skills, computer hacking skills.
Favourite animal: Liger, bred for its skills in magic.

“Anyone can give up, it's the easiest thing in the world to do. But to hold it together when everyone else would understand if you fell apart, that's true strength.”

John McCain promo vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWS-F...eature=related

Tant01

Care to elaborate here Ju? I think you lost me?

Easy to do with my short little attention span.

Thanks.

__________________
While the old form, jujutsu, was studied solely for fighting purposes, Kano's new system is found to promote the mental as well as the physical faculties.

T. Shidachi, 1892

Ghost

its cos hes a crack smoking pixie.

Hes failed to groom yet another underage japanese girl that hes met on the internet and is taking it out on the rest of us.

Jubaji remains single. Jubaji instead of whining post up some hot girls. its better than your silly rants.

__________________
Skills: Numchuck skills, bow hunting skills, computer hacking skills.
Favourite animal: Liger, bred for its skills in magic.

“Anyone can give up, it's the easiest thing in the world to do. But to hold it together when everyone else would understand if you fell apart, that's true strength.”

John McCain promo vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWS-F...eature=related

jubaji

1) He failed to adapt to the environment he seemingly chose to put himself in.

(this is quite different than choosing not to try and re-create an atmosphere of culture X outside that culture's natural environs)

2) His apparent 'issue' with authority suggests that he failed mainly because of a weak mind and an overly-sensitive ego.

3) He found the "groundwork" he was training "easier" than what he had trained before, which suggests that he didn't train it very well or very hard which is on him, not on whatever he was training.

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jubaji

You fail yet again! You're on a roll.

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Tant01

Chill dude. Your efforts to dehumanize Ju won't help me coax any insights from him...

His appetite for exotic beauty is irrelevant here.

or maybe not....?

Ju?

__________________
While the old form, jujutsu, was studied solely for fighting purposes, Kano's new system is found to promote the mental as well as the physical faculties.

T. Shidachi, 1892