Great Sage

I know the argument: "It's not the martial art, but the martial artist" holds true to many people, but what if that martail artist learned a better martial arts? Seriously, some Martial Arts are just crap, or at least full of it...

Take Tiger/Crane Kung-Fu for instance... I spent the past 5 months learning Hungar from a friend and the only good thing that came about it was my Chinese terminology. Many of the strikes are basically useless in fighting (try "Hungry Tiger Catches Goat" on an adversary and you'll know what I mean). The stances are too low for quick mobility and the defensive maneuvers are overcommitted and susceptible to feints. Now I know why the Chinese resorted to San Shou.

Granted, 5 months is not a great deal of time, but 5 months at a boxing gym would prove more beneficial. I've never fallen under the mystique that boxers were inferior to kung-fu or karate... Boxing is just too sound and skilled. Some other arts that are good include: Judo, Jiu Jitsu, BJJ and Muay Thai.

__________________
The sage experiences without abstraction,
And accomplishes without action;
He accepts the ebb and flow of things,
Nurtures them, but does not own them,
And lives, but does not dwell.

darrianation

I agree with you. Keep it simple keep it effective and practical.

__________________
The law of tyranny:

1. Any power that can be abused will be abused
2. Abuse always expands to fill the limits of resistance to it.
3. If people don't resist the abuses of others, they will have no one to resist the abuses of themselves, and tyranny will prevail.


Welcome to the Socialist States of Amerika . Coming soon Jan 20th 2009!

JaredExtreme

Take judo off that list.

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"I don't fight in the street, there's no mats out there." - JaredExtreme

Szczepankiewicz

Jared is baiting....

JaredExtreme

In all seriousness, I think judo has far too many inefficient moves and wastes time practicing kata.

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"I don't fight in the street, there's no mats out there." - JaredExtreme

brokenelbow

Take Muay Thai off too, it's stances are too high and narrow and make you easy pickens for good grapplers.

Also take BJJ off the list, laying on the ground is great for one on one but you leave yourself open to multiple attackers.

ryanhall

Pre-WW II Judo was completely different from the sport we see today. It was a sport then too, but it was a lot more combative. The difference is night and day.

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"Ray, when someone asks you if you're a god, you say YES!"

darrianation

Let me quantify my last statement a bit. People take martial arts for different reasons. What is crap to you and me is someone else’s Garden of Eden. Some people like internal arts, others flashy arts, or self-defense, or to just get in shape. Really who is to say what is crap. However there are definitely systems out there that I don’t care for. There are systems out there that are bad for self-defense. Then there are some good and then better ones. If you want to learn stick fighting then don’t take boxing. If you want to impress people with flashy kicks don’t take ju jitsu. Same thing if you want explosive power with simple effectiveness then don’t learn tai chi. See what I mean? Different strokes for different folks.

I still say keep it simple, effective, and practical.

__________________
The law of tyranny:

1. Any power that can be abused will be abused
2. Abuse always expands to fill the limits of resistance to it.
3. If people don't resist the abuses of others, they will have no one to resist the abuses of themselves, and tyranny will prevail.


Welcome to the Socialist States of Amerika . Coming soon Jan 20th 2009!

brokenelbow

Even the definitions of simple, effective, and practical will vary. While Muay Thai is simple, effective and practical on a firm, open consistent surface it may be the least effective and least practical in a more natural setting where you may have to contend with holes, trees and bushes.

I guess they all stink, I'm buying another gun.

CainWeeHerman

The reverse punch is my favorite punch...


weeeee!

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ramus

well, TKD and Karate sucks, and HKD rules

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DOWN WITH GEORGE W. BUSH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ryanhall

Actually, the proper word is 'suck.' Another intelligent, yet less than three sentence post by Ramus.

__________________
"Ray, when someone asks you if you're a god, you say YES!"

Toudiyama

Japanese Karate sucks because it has 3 punches, which is way to much(rest are just variations)2 or 3strikes a couple of ways to grable and takedown And and here the sarcasm stops because Some styles have way to many forms
A lot of Japanese Karate has the same function as Kendo

some of them still quote the 3 years for one kata saying but have 26 Kata, now this 3 years was based on Okinawans training every day and really going into the form including the applications
How will you do the same if you do not do the applications and if you do the applications how do you manage in 3 years if you train 3 days a week? and how do you manage it in a lifetime to study all 26 of them
Some styles are even worse they have around 60 forms

But this all doesn't make them crap does it? it might make them crap for ringsports or maybe even selfdefence
Doing to much noncontact sparring might make you pull your punches in rel life, yeah right and doing boxing and MT too long make you NOT hitting the back of the head and the back

seeker

I´m sick of these worthless conversations of what is crap and what is not. Wouldn´t it be more beneficial to talk about something else like what things are good in some arts and what things are not. There has been at least ten different threads starting with the post:"karate sucks" or "all traditional arts suck". If some of you think so, go ahead, but I think it has already been maid clear to everyone that you do. If you people haven´t seen the more or less totally good answer saying that it depends on what you want from the art.
And what comes to hung gar kungfu, I haven´t tryed it out, but I most sertainly will if I have a change. THere is no such thing as totally crap martial art.

Great Sage

Seeker and other non-believers,

I beg to differ, some Martial Arts are completely, if not mostly crap-o-la... Imagine defending from a cat stance and twisting into a scissors stance, then advancing into a slanted horse stance for a counter strike. This is typical of Choy Li Fut, Southern China’s most prestigious kung-fu. Choy Li stylists are known for their powerful stances, they practice maintaining these stances for hours at a time. Unfortunately, powerful static stances offer impractical mobility in combat. Furthermore, Choy Li hand techniques suffer from lack of power and simplicity. Performing a “Scooping Fist” will more than likely get one kicked in the face, or worst yet knocked out.

In another thread, I talked about the ineffectiveness of traditional kung-fu... Hence, the Chinese resorted to developing San Shou, which originated in direct response to Muay Thai. As early as the 50’s, Chinese Kung-fu was under scrutiny because many of its supposedly deadly techniques seemed like child’s play in comparison to Muay Thai — this is a well known fact in Chinese circles. You will notice in Kwoons in China that students practice traditional styles, but during sparring, they resort to San Shou... Don’t ask me why, I think they should practicing San Shou from the get go if the purpose of Kung-fu is for combat.

Needless to say, I agree that people practice martial arts for different reasons, but as my Master used to point out — that is not Martial Arts, but merely sport or exercise, and the person would fair better doing aerobics, dance or basketball.

__________________
The sage experiences without abstraction,
And accomplishes without action;
He accepts the ebb and flow of things,
Nurtures them, but does not own them,
And lives, but does not dwell.