kevin green

YOU MEAN APPROPRIATE AT SHINTO SERVICE NOT JUDO TOURNAMENT. OK .YOU JUST MADE A TYPO!

RobertG

Bowing is not part of Shinto traditions. It is part of Japanese culture. You bow as a sign of respect for another person--just as we in America might offer a handshake. You don't prostrate yourself, so your ass is not in the air as you so often claim. You don't bow to Kano pictures. They might do that in Aikido for O Sensei. You bow before you step on the mat--to nothing in particular, and you bow to an opponent. You aren't stepping through a Tori, so it cannot possibly be a Shinto ritual. There is no shrine, no altar, no trappings of Shinto. Therefore it is not Shinto. Every other culture in Asia bows (or nearly all). Its an Asian cultural tradition--likely diffused from China. It has nothing to do with Shinto. Shinto probably came from the Ainu anyway. And the Ainu are Cacausians. The Japanese just probably appopriated some of their ideas when they took over the islands 2000 years ago. So if bowing was Shinto, then it'd really be a Cacausian thing anyway. And so it'd be halfway to being Christian and so you'd have to approve anyway.

Checkmate. Now go over to the Underground and annoy them. That is if they haven't driven you off already.

kevin green

please read the article by Jerry Dalien at Http://www.judoinfo.com/dalien2.htm
and then go to Judo Ontario and read the article
"Bowing the highest form of respect" by James Kojima referee directer international judo federation

Toudiyama[NL]

On that page

__________________

kevin green

Keep Reading. Plus say which article you are quoting from.
Now we will make some progress. We will decide if there are cult or religous overtones. We are tracing Judo back to its origins so anyone on my side please feel free to jump in anytime.


Evidently you fellows agree that IF there are cultish or religous overtones they don't belong inorganized competition unless voluntary?

Is that in agreement with everybody. They shouldn't force people into it if that is evident?

RobertG

Its from the Dalien article that you posted a link too. Duh.

So, given that no Judo person talks about religion or about bowing being anything other than a cultural sign of respect, and given that no Shinto person talks about Judo and that Judo contains no aspects of Shinto, what exactly is your point?

Sumo is a Shinto event. That is the Shinto martial art. In order for judo tournaments to be Shinto events, the players would have to stomp around the mat like sumo guys, toss salt around, and the like. That is what makes Sumo a Shinto event (among other things). Since Judo lacks any of this, since Judo tournaments contain only the ceremonial bow which is fundamental to Japanese culture, there is no Shinto element to it.

And quite frankly, if its that much of any issue for you, your coach, and your coaches family, its not like there are not a plethora of other grappling arts they could do. Don't like bowing? Do sambo. Same thing as judo practically. Greco-roman wrestling. Submission wrestling. Brazillian jujitsu. Shootfighting. Catch-as-can wrestling. Dumog. Turkish wrestling. I could go on and on. There are all manner of other grappling arts that have competitions. How hard is it to just do something else if you don't want to bow at competitions? This is like saying you want to be a professional boxer, but you don't want to walk up to the center of the ring before the fight to have the rules read to you and touch gloves. That's just what they do in boxing. Suing the IBF or WBA or what have you because you don't want to touch gloves is just absurd. You could do any number of other striking arts. The judo lawsuits are the same thing. Useless and a waste of people's time and money.

Judo is about as Shinto as Krav Maga is Jewish. Yeah, Krav Maga was developed by Israeli's, but you there is nothing Jewish about it. Judo is the same way.

kevin green

Please look up shinto religion kamiza Or god seat place of the spirits

RobertG

Ummm, first off, typically only dojos in Japan have these shrines--except for Aikido dojos. They have shrines to Ueshiba in just about every country. That is an Aikido phenomena, not a Judo one. Next argument....

kevin green

Read the article at Http;//www.judoinfo.com/dalien2.htm

IN" tournament" what do they bow to? The kamiza or ( front table )
place of spirits, the god seat.

What is the definition of kamiza?


Don't you see the connection Kami kazi .You know airplanes with bombs, suicide bombers .Isn't that a nice thing to bow to. To force our armed forces teams to bow to. SHINTO SHINTO SHINTO
there is no other way to see it ,only to blindly deny it exists!

THATS CALLED BEING BRAINWASHED

Just the facts .

kevin green

Does akido have tournaments sponsored by A.A.U.? Do our armed forces compete ? Is it an olympic sport? Do they force people to bow to the GOD SEAT OR PLACE OF SPIRITS?
If they did that would be wrong too.

DO they teach it in public schools?

RobertG

I've never bowed to a kamiza at a tournament. There has never been a kamiza at any tournament I've been too and that includes state and national events. There is no bowing to kamizas at tournaments in the United States. Our school does not have a kamiza. I very much doubt very many schools in the US have a kamiza. In Japan they do. Why? Because nearly everyone in Japan is Shinto. Since Shinto isn't really an organized religion in the same way as Christianity or Buddhism, Shinto practices are totally compatible with other religous practices (in Japan). Anyway, there is no Shinto associated with Judo in the US because Shinto is unique to Japan.

Anyway, I've already asked you why you can't just do sambo?

kevin green

No chokes wear shoes if you don't give up they try to break your arm. PLus sambo isn't olympic sport not universally accepted
like judo
why don't you play tiddly winks

I wrote you a message too!

kevin green

Brainwashed chanting mantra that repeated ad nausem will stupify the surging masses into mind numbing idolatry.

The guy in the article says no religion= read between the lines . he's trying to justify the obvious. He goes on to describe the opposite of what he just says.

What do you bow to when you step on the mat?He says nothing in particular. It's just denial . Justifacation is called for Just because he says one thing doesn't make it true. Use the same article to find what the truth really is. take a step back and ask where does it come from? bow to what :spirits that reside in the mat ,god seat- don't ever turn your back on it. What is the definition of kamiza?

kevin green

ARE YOU SAYING THAT SPIRITS ARE PHYSICAL THINGS. OR ARE YOU SAYING THAT YOU WERE NOT AWARE OF WHAT WAS HAPPENING AROUND YOU! MAYBE THERE ARE SPIRITS ? WHO KNOWS? I CERTAINLY DON'T. BUT YOU MUST THINK THAT BECAUSE YOU COULDN'T SEE THEM THEY WEREN'T THERE?
YOU DID NOT COUNCIOUSLY KNOW WHAT YOU WERE DOING. YOU ARE AN UN-CONCIOUS RELIGOUS MOONIE AND DID NOT REALIZE IT UNTIL NOW. YOU ARE NOW OFFICIALLY DE-PROGRAMMED! CONGRATULATIONS ARE IN ORDER.*********

kevin green

You have done that but didn't realize it . The mass bowing ceremony at the beginning is to the kamiza There is a table yes? stepping onto the mat you bow to the mat stepping off of the mat you bow once again to the mat. It has spirits(the mat).

Plus I have pictures of kids holding trophies that are Kami shrines in america. Do you bow to the mat at your school? now you know why.Do you Bow to Kano's picture .