RobertG

Well except for the fact that back in the day Mas Oyama was beating the crap out of everyone, including MT guys and bulls (and rocks and trees). Its really a little of both. You can teach people say MT/BJJ and if they suck, they suck. If they aren't natural fighters, some girl who does Tae Bo could wipe the floor with them. In general, I'd agree, most Karate/Kung Fu styles are not efficient methods of combat. The main problem with most is that they haven't been "battle tested" as it were in real combat (or even competition combat) by many, many people. BJJ, for instance, has been used by many different people, under many different circumstances and tends to work effectively in many cases for most people. Same with say MT, or Kali, or boxing, or Judo. Now TKD or Shotokan might not work for most people in most circumstances, but that isn't to say there aren't guys out there doing just TKD or Shotokan or
Druken Monkey Kung Fu that can't kick ass. Some guys are bad ass regardless of what their style is. The art certainly helps make the fighter, but a fighter is a fighter regardless.

brokenelbow

Add Muay Thai to that list. I have a friend who does Muay Thai and he got dumped on his neck in a street fight. So I guess Muay Thai is useless.

bartjam

I ignore wether you are being ironical or not. I just want to point out that if someone sucks, or he just hasn't guts, he can train 10 years with Rickson Gracie in GJJ or with Vunak in JKD and still get sucked by a common street-brawler or bad-ass. That's nothing to do with your "style".
Muay Thai is a great MA, and extremely realistic in a street-scenario especially if you are good with elbows, knees, head-butts, clinches, and of course low-kicks.

brokenelbow

He's a pretty good Muay Thai ring fighter, so guts and sucks had nothing to do with it. He tried to fight his fight in his style and the other guy just picked him up and dumped him. Hard to clinch or knee when the other has you by the waist, feet off the ground and your head going to meet mother earth. Would have been better keeping the guy to the outside instead of thinking knees, elbows and headbutts would win the fight. But it's all 20/20 hindsight, a broken collar bone and other assorted injuries.

dkm

I've seen many ring fights where Muay Thai guys get beaten by Kyokushin karate guys (mixed with some boxing experience)....so I guess you have to clarify what kind of karate you are talking about.

sercuerdas

heel hook,

i disagree, tourneys are not real figthing. who would win in a wrestling match, probably a wrestler. all sport fighting has rules which dictate who will win. put mt vs a stick or knive fighter, and mt will probably lose. that doesn't make it a flawed art. i fell a persons mentality plays a huge role, a pussy who trains mt or bjj is still a pussy regardless of the art.

RobertG

How exactly is Muay Thai "realistic" in a street scenario? Muay Thai is developed for ring fighting. There is no eye gouging, no biting, no weapons, no grappling, no concrete, no beer bottles, no chairs....

Is it good to have a few solid kicks, some clinching ability, punching and elbows and knees? Absolutely. Is it good to be highly conditioned as most Muay Thai guys are? Absolutely. Does this mean you're going to win a street fight? No. Street fighters use all the same weapons as Muay Thai guys. I've said it before, I'll say it again--if you want to be a streetfighter than go get beat in by a gang. Roll with them on the streets for a while. Get in lots of real fights. Go to prison. Survive in prison for a while. Fight more there. Go back on the street. Go back to prison. Repeat the cycle a few dozen times. There you go. Now you have a real street fighter. Now I don't doubt a real Thai fighter who grew up in Bangkok could handle say some banger from Compton. I mean I think growing up on the streets of Bangkok probably sucks. It'll make you plenty hard. But you're average American or European MT guy from a middle class background simply hasn't had to live the streetlife--hence, they are ill prepared, MT or not, for the realities of the street. MT isn't going to make you a good street fighter. It might help you survive a street fight if you're good AND lucky. If you're really lucky you might even win. But, unless you've had to worry about having the train run on your ass everyday in prison, don't even go around talking like you can take some hard ass gangsta with your martial arts.

karateka_101

what many people don't understand is that martial arts are not only about fighting. If you're talking about the most useless fighting style, you should have called it "most useless fighting style"

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- Grandmaster Gogen Yamaguchi

Maz

I have actually been to Bangkok for a short visit. Any form of training is going to help if you got the over all natural toughness to go with it (both physical and mental). Experience>training.
As far as Thailand being any less dangerous than the worst sections of the US? I don't think so, the street thugs of Bangkok are no joke. They may not have the size due to the lack of nutrition in thier 3rd world diet, unlike the 3 hots and a cot in a US prison, but these guys can be extra cunning and downright ruthless. Remember these are 3rd world countries you are talking about where life is cheap and these people can be pretty creative in finding a way to kill and abosolutely nothing to lose. I bet the ratio among these fellas who actaully know MT are about the same ratio as our street youths actually know how to box (not much). Overall people who fight on the streets generally arent' that good cuz they for the most part resort to weapons like a gun to settle their differences. You ever watch those home made videos where a bunch of gang bangers fight? I've never seen more haymakers.

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Hoy!

brokenelbow

Point being there is no such thing as a style that automatically makes you effective on the street or ring. There are more variables to effective fighting than fancy shorts, a black belt or a custom made knife.

Mr. Heel Hook

Dude, what are you talking about? BJJ was born on the street way before it was taken to a tourney atmosphere. BJJ was tested on the Streets of Rio before it was anything else. Tourneys came from the want to prove how good it was rather than beating random people up. Such things were born to prove how good the art was to the masses. Not born for the strict idea of fighting with rules.

Granted, the mental fortitude has a great deal to do with it. However, when you are getting pounded or feel threatened on being seriously harmed, instincts take over from the all clearing adrenaline rush.

Either way, a pussy (as you like to call it) is going to have a better chance with an art that actually works -- like Jiu Jitsu... (<-- my opinion of what art works)

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-Rener Gracie-

Toudiyama[NL]

And wh don'I see an conac figher enering a non/semi contact tourny, because they lack the controll and get disqualified

BS! if you have to compete in a different way you have to prepare and spend time training fighting the way the tourny allows, this takes time, which I for one am not prepared to spend just to satisfy the curiousity of someone else

MT fighters that enter the WC of Kyokushin Karate don't get past the first round only because they are not used to the rules and haven't trained in that way

Oh and the final of UFC1 was between GJJ and Kyokushin Karate because that was his main art, which is what he still is doing/teaching
So whin nobody was crosstraining, karate got into the final, yeah you're right, flawed as a fighting art

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Mr. Heel Hook

I can barely understand what you're trying to say to me...

Anyway, just because a Karate guy made it to the finals of the very first UFC isn't saying that much. And I thought he was Savat... which is kick boxing more or less... Either way, it doesn't change what I said.

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"A deer admires a lion. But all the members of our family are lions. So it doesn't matter which lion I admire. "
-Rener Gracie-

gracilva

he was a savate fighter from the netherlands(breed them tough there), he also had a broken hand and a tooth implanted in his foot from the kick to the sumo guy when he fought royce

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peace.....for now

MuayThaiFighter

What the **** are you talking about ?

You're the one that is full of BS. Since when can a MuayThai fighter not last first round due to not being used to the rules of the WC of Kyokushin Karate?

We will last the first round in any type of tournament, because we train specifically for fighting, and we are able to adjust to any rules and still win.

We lack the control for entering a semi contact tourny,hhhhmmmmmm,sounds like the biggest bullshit I've ever heard.

That's funny, I've fought in many semi-contact fights and won.

You are right though that we often get disqualified but it isn't because we can't win according to their rules,it is only because other styles are jealous of us MuayThai fighters. Jealous that we are always able to win.That is why my school no longer fights at these little tournaments with semi-contact, because we know we will get disqualified for no reason but jealousy, besides we are too good for semi-contact so we fight full contact now.

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