Thai Bri

Thats very true. Our society is much more sedate than yours, as we don't allow our citezens to arm themselves.

Szczepankiewicz

Don't go there girlfriend....

Thai Bri

Oh Yes! I know some on the net who arm themselves to the teeth! Everywhere they go! What a bunch of sad bastards!

Hurry up Spanky! Get deleting before your mate finds this post!

Haw haw haw!

Szczepankiewicz

Not gonna do that.

But I'd be happy to debate with you the differences between individual liberty and collective stupidity.

Thai Bri

You're going over to the Dark Side.........

Those idiots call Democracy "Mob Rule", and say that they need to be armed so that they can rise up against their democratically elected Government if it makes decisions they don't like.

Luke......... Luke...........

Szczepankiewicz

Democracy (n.) Three wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner matey.

I live in Idaho, HOME of the paranoid. You travel up north and you get real live consipiracy theorists.

However, the rest of us take our personal liberty serious. There are way too many people in the world (and some of them hold government office) who would love to strip me of my right to bear arms.

You think that if you disarm the populus you somehow protect them?

Or maybe the government (i.e. police) are going to protect us from each other?

I'm not sure if you're a student of history or literature Brian, but people been killing each other with sticks, rocks and just about anything they can find for the last 2 million years.

Being an elightened socialist preaching peace isn't going to change that.

Szczepankiewicz "The Original Minuteman"

Thai Bri

Lucky for you to live in America then, where the right to bear arms has eliminated violent crime.

Except for the amazingly regular school yard full of kids. And the thousands of accidental deaths each year. Need I go on?

To labour the analogy, society is much more like 3 sheep and a wolf. Your just creating more wolves, and I'm not called Peter.

Szczepankiewicz

You're right: I am lucky to live in America.

You're wrong: the right to bear arms has NOT eliminated violent crime. Violence and/or crime will never be eliminated. Never said it did. Nor have I said it would.

Society is like three sheeps and a wolf. I agree.

But I am neither. I'm a fat wap hound dog licking his own.... Well, you get the picture.


There are pluses and minuses to individual ownership of firearms.

However, as long as I am armed, it will be very difficult for anyone to take away my right to make my own choices.

Once you strip me of my arms, then of course I'm a lot more agreeable to whatever the will of the majority seems to be. Especially since they are still armed and well funded.

I always find it a little ironic when, on the one hand, a Self Defense Enthusiast advocates training RSBD and the application of violence through sticks, knives, rocks, and the body's natural weapons and on the other hand rails against the same theories extended into the realm of projectile weapons.

If you were really interested in 'protecting' people from themselves, you'd be better served attacking the automobile and beef industries.

Alas, I see your minions are already hard at work doing just that.

No amount of government intervention is going to prevent human nature from it's various manifestations.

Thai Bri

Well, why have government intervention at all then?

Anarchist.

kengar

Please, if you want to argue your point of view then do so, but don't use utter bullshit.

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Hummm.....

Szczepankiewicz

If you're going to quote statistics, then do so, but remember to provide a source.


I'm not an Anarchist either. I believe in a limited and balanced government functionary. Similar to Libertarianism, only not quite that bizarre.

GreyBeard

Maybe if the sheep were allowed to bear arms they could keep that wolf in check. But, when limitted to natural armament, the wolf is given free reign.

And for some real world evidence of this....

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=21902

An armed society is a polite society.

Lizard

I saw a thing by micheal moore (not sure if thats how you humans spell his name) called "bowling with columbine" (or some such similar title).

Although I didnt get to see the end (my R.E. lesson ended) his conclusion seemed to be that the reason there is so much gun crime in america is due to a combination of guns and fear (fed to them by the media).

Canada has guns. Not many shootings in canada. Many canadians leave their doors unlocked even though they live in a big city. No fear. They even play the same violent games and watch the same violent films. The only difference seems to be fear.

I got some relatives in canada. Might visit them someday...

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Enemies Strengthen,
Allies weaken.

gregimotis

Gun rights in the United states really have very little to do with self defense (which is not to say that it isn't a legit use), they have to do with control of government.

The historical perspective: Pre-revolutionary war, most of the people in the British colonies (America) had come here to escape religious and political persecution and also a social structure in Europe which guanteed them only grinding poverty for life.

So in the Americas in the late 1700's we had people who had (or thier parents had) given oppressive society in Europe the finger ( ) and built a new place from scratch.
They also had, on paper, a representative government. The British empire trod on the representative government and we gave the British empire the finger ( ). Had we not been well armed, we would have been right back in the feudal system we left Europe for in the first place.


WE (us libertarian\anarchist\gun totin' types) feel that
governments have killed way more of their own people than criminals have ever killed and furthermore, governments have historically put way more energy into repressing their people than 'protecting' them from criminals.

Witness the Russian people who thought they were getting a peoples paradise, but instead got murdered by the millions - by their own government.
Batista in Cuba, the Irish under the British, the French pre-French revolution, the Kurds under Hussein, the American Indians under the United states, etc.

If you let your government step on your toes today, they will step on your knees tomorrow!

And that is my rant for the day. Thank you

adacas

I am a firm believer that guns don't kill...stupid mother f*****s with guns kill. I personally don't carry a gun. They are too loud, too big and too slow for me. I prefer my cheap little maxam knife that I bought on ebay and no one will tell me that I don't have the right to carry it. I don't want to be rude and mean no harm to anyone but when you own a gun it is your responsiblity to not only to protect your family with the gun but also to protect your family from the gun eg. kids blowing eachothers heads off. If you taught your kids any better then they would know better. Most people just stick a loaded 9mm in their sock drawer and hope their kids won't go peaking in. My mom was a correctional officer and would beat the hell out of us whenever we walked in on her just cleaning the gun. We new better. As for violent crimes with guns just take a jump skip and a hop across the ocean into some european countries and you will find that you are more likely to be stabbed than shot. There is not much we can do about violent crimes except teach our own to be better than that. The only problem with guns I have are a bunch of rich bastards who like to buy fully loaded automatic machine guns, like they will ever need that much firepower, refuse to register them due to violation of their privacy (Ashcroft) but then have no problem when the government passes a law stating they could infringe on your right to privacy whenever they feel like it (Ashcroft). hmmmm Sounds like the rich putting a tighter grip around middle class americas balls.

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Estalilla Kabaroan