Are high kicks really necessary?

rog · 10-19-2003, 08:00 PM

After years of telling myself that I ought to take up some form of self-defense, I finally got round to it at the age of 36 and joined a kick boxing class about 5 months ago.

I have enjoyed the classes but have recently become increasingly frustrated by my inability to perform the high kicks. I have been assured that this will come with time but frankly I am not convinced.

Are there any styles out there which use only low kicks? Or would I be better off having a go at traditional boxing?

I have no background in martial arts and just wish to be able to defend myself should it be necessary to do so.

I consider myself to be a fairly fit guy for my age and work out regularly but I just do not seem to have the flexibility to perform the high kicks.

Thanks in advance.

eXcessiveForce · 10-19-2003, 08:18 PM

kicks add a dimension to you skills. Don't give up just because it is slow going. Although there are styles that only do low kicks you might find working on your flexiblity will benefit you more in the long run whether you do high kicks or not.

Check out the info I posted on stretching in Scott Kano's thread about flexibility.

**Thai Bri** · 10-19-2003, 08:26 PM

High kicks are one of the many things that have helped dilute many martial arts as actual fighting systems. They years taken to master them are that is way out of proportion to the benefits they offer in return. They are more of a danger to the kicker than the kicked.

There are arts that dont bother with them. If you want to learn to actually defend yourself, as oposed to partake in a sport, than ditch the high kicking.

Boxing is good. Or you could try a grappling art (or mix the two). If I was the Kickboxing instructor, I'd tailor your training to suit you, and let you learn skills that don't involve high kicks.

Good luck!

adacas · 10-19-2003, 10:28 PM

kajukenbo has no high kicks as far as I know only kicks below the waist. the rest are strikes, grappling etc.

grubbogoppoly · 10-19-2003, 11:20 PM

Thai. .
I was just curious. You always say that high kicks are worthless and love thai boxing. But, from all of the thai boxing that I have seen they do a lot of high kicks too. Is it just the matches that I have seen?

**Thai Bri** · 10-19-2003, 11:38 PM

Thai boxing has excellent tools, like knees, elbows, standing grappling and low kicks. It also has excellent training methods.

Having high kicks in the syllabus doesn't undermine the afore mentioned strengths.

Hwa Wrang Do..... well, thats another matter.

grubbogoppoly · 10-20-2003, 12:02 AM

Spoken like someone who is truly ignorant or kidding.

Hwa Rang do has all those and a lot more..Hmm...knees-got em. Elbows. .Wow we got em too. Stand up grappling and low kicks..Wow we got those too. Ground work-got that too...Oh wait you didn't mention that in thai

. Weapons-we got that too. Oh yeah you didn't mention that either.

**Thai Bri** · 10-20-2003, 12:53 AM

You rather fittingly failed to claim that Hwa Rang Do has the excellent training methods.

I rest my case.

grubbogoppoly · 10-20-2003, 01:26 AM

It has excellent training methods. .THere I win. .lol. What are these excellent training methods that are so exclusive to the thai boxers? Really just curious? I will bet you these "thai training methods" are used in every good martial art school. .Chinese.. .japanese or korean art. Doesn't matter. Get serious for one second and just explain to me the difference?

Toudiyama[NL] · 10-20-2003, 06:37 AM

they are so worthless that 2x in a row Crocop knocked his oponent out with a high kick
Remy Bonjaski also has some devistating high kicks ( heck even flying kicks)

Fact is you better make a high kick very fast, much faster than a lowkick otherwise you will be likely to land on your back

**Thai Bri** · 10-20-2003, 10:43 AM

Just because some very dedicated people at the top of their sport can make some of them work some of the time, in sport rules....... That is hardly an advert for them.

Grubby. Do you hit pads and bags all day? Or do you practice "basics" against thin air. Do you apply your techniques against a fully resisting opponent? Or do you train "with" a partner, rather than "at" him.

Be honest now. If you're going to tell me that Hwa Wrang Do trains as hard as Muay Thai, you're going to raise alot of eyebrows....

Szczepankiewicz · 10-20-2003, 11:07 AM

Quote:

you're going to raise alot of eyebrows

What are you talking about Bitty, we all know you only have one eyebrow...

grubbogoppoly · 10-20-2003, 01:16 PM

So basically your saying thai's amazing training "techniques" are essentially hard work? So yeah. .We hit heavy bags. .focus pads and resisting opponents.

Those aren't training techniques. That is hard work and that comes down to the trainer and trainee, not the art. So tell me again. .

P.S. this is your problem. You mistake hard work for "muay thai" training techniques. Just because you didn't put in any hard work into your karate or whatever it was doesn't mean that other people don't work hard in their arts.

**Thai Bri** · 10-20-2003, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by grubbogoppoly
We hit heavy bags. .focus pads and resisting opponents.

Those aren't training techniques.

Durrrrr. Yes they are.

No. Hwa Wrang Do is not trained with the intensity of Thai Boxing. Your exaggerating. Again. But I forgive you.

grubbogoppoly · 10-20-2003, 06:29 PM

What I meant was that those aren't exclusively THAI training techniques. I also meant what you describe is intensity not anything related to a specific martial art.

You asked if we had good training techniques. A lot of them are the same as what you describe as "thai training techniques". So what makes thai superior again?

You say intensity? You can't use intensity in any other art??

Even if YOU do have more intensity and that is all you have said as an argument that thai is better. Then how does that make thai boxing better? Doesn't that just mean that you have worked harder at your thai boxing. If you don't put any effort in your other arts that you had taken, then why do you think that you didn't get anything out of it?????

10-19-2003, 08:00 PM	#1 (permalink)
rog Novice Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 1	Are high kicks really necessary? After years of telling myself that I ought to take up some form of self-defense, I finally got round to it at the age of 36 and joined a kick boxing class about 5 months ago. I have enjoyed the classes but have recently become increasingly frustrated by my inability to perform the high kicks. I have been assured that this will come with time but frankly I am not convinced. Are there any styles out there which use only low kicks? Or would I be better off having a go at traditional boxing? I have no background in martial arts and just wish to be able to defend myself should it be necessary to do so. I consider myself to be a fairly fit guy for my age and work out regularly but I just do not seem to have the flexibility to perform the high kicks. Thanks in advance.

10-19-2003, 08:18 PM	#2 (permalink)
eXcessiveForce Excessive Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Missouri Posts: 2,690	kicks add a dimension to you skills. Don't give up just because it is slow going. Although there are styles that only do low kicks you might find working on your flexiblity will benefit you more in the long run whether you do high kicks or not. Check out the info I posted on stretching in Scott Kano's thread about flexibility. __________________ eXcessiveFORCE. If you must use force, make it excessive.

10-19-2003, 10:28 PM	#4 (permalink)
adacas Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Fresno, Ca Posts: 563	kajukenbo has no high kicks as far as I know only kicks below the waist. the rest are strikes, grappling etc. __________________ Estalilla Kabaroan

10-19-2003, 11:20 PM	#5 (permalink)
grubbogoppoly Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 283	Thai. . I was just curious. You always say that high kicks are worthless and love thai boxing. But, from all of the thai boxing that I have seen they do a lot of high kicks too. Is it just the matches that I have seen? __________________ I apologize for anything I am, will, or have said that will or may offend you. I take no responsibility for my words/actions and will not be punished.

10-20-2003, 12:02 AM	#7 (permalink)
grubbogoppoly Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 283	Spoken like someone who is truly ignorant or kidding. Hwa Rang do has all those and a lot more..Hmm...knees-got em. Elbows. .Wow we got em too. Stand up grappling and low kicks..Wow we got those too. Ground work-got that too...Oh wait you didn't mention that in thai . Weapons-we got that too. Oh yeah you didn't mention that either. __________________ I apologize for anything I am, will, or have said that will or may offend you. I take no responsibility for my words/actions and will not be punished.

10-19-2003, 08:26 PM	#3 (permalink)
Thai Bri Premiere Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 5,415	High kicks are one of the many things that have helped dilute many martial arts as actual fighting systems. They years taken to master them are that is way out of proportion to the benefits they offer in return. They are more of a danger to the kicker than the kicked. There are arts that dont bother with them. If you want to learn to actually defend yourself, as oposed to partake in a sport, than ditch the high kicking. Boxing is good. Or you could try a grappling art (or mix the two). If I was the Kickboxing instructor, I'd tailor your training to suit you, and let you learn skills that don't involve high kicks. Good luck!

10-19-2003, 11:38 PM	#6 (permalink)
Thai Bri Premiere Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 5,415	Thai boxing has excellent tools, like knees, elbows, standing grappling and low kicks. It also has excellent training methods. Having high kicks in the syllabus doesn't undermine the afore mentioned strengths. Hwa Wrang Do..... well, thats another matter.

10-20-2003, 12:53 AM	#8 (permalink)
Thai Bri Premiere Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 5,415	You rather fittingly failed to claim that Hwa Rang Do has the excellent training methods. I rest my case.

10-20-2003, 01:26 AM	#9 (permalink)
grubbogoppoly Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 283	It has excellent training methods. .THere I win. .lol. What are these excellent training methods that are so exclusive to the thai boxers? Really just curious? I will bet you these "thai training methods" are used in every good martial art school. .Chinese.. .japanese or korean art. Doesn't matter. Get serious for one second and just explain to me the difference? __________________ I apologize for anything I am, will, or have said that will or may offend you. I take no responsibility for my words/actions and will not be punished.

10-20-2003, 06:37 AM	#10 (permalink)
Toudiyama[NL] Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Zaandam, Netherlands Posts: 1,390	they are so worthless that 2x in a row Crocop knocked his oponent out with a high kick Remy Bonjaski also has some devistating high kicks ( heck even flying kicks) Fact is you better make a high kick very fast, much faster than a lowkick otherwise you will be likely to land on your back __________________

10-20-2003, 10:43 AM	#11 (permalink)
Thai Bri Premiere Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 5,415	Just because some very dedicated people at the top of their sport can make some of them work some of the time, in sport rules....... That is hardly an advert for them. Grubby. Do you hit pads and bags all day? Or do you practice "basics" against thin air. Do you apply your techniques against a fully resisting opponent? Or do you train "with" a partner, rather than "at" him. Be honest now. If you're going to tell me that Hwa Wrang Do trains as hard as Muay Thai, you're going to raise alot of eyebrows....

10-20-2003, 01:16 PM	#13 (permalink)
grubbogoppoly Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 283	So basically your saying thai's amazing training "techniques" are essentially hard work? So yeah. .We hit heavy bags. .focus pads and resisting opponents. Those aren't training techniques. That is hard work and that comes down to the trainer and trainee, not the art. So tell me again. . P.S. this is your problem. You mistake hard work for "muay thai" training techniques. Just because you didn't put in any hard work into your karate or whatever it was doesn't mean that other people don't work hard in their arts. __________________ I apologize for anything I am, will, or have said that will or may offend you. I take no responsibility for my words/actions and will not be punished.

10-20-2003, 06:29 PM	#15 (permalink)
grubbogoppoly Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 283	What I meant was that those aren't exclusively THAI training techniques. I also meant what you describe is intensity not anything related to a specific martial art. You asked if we had good training techniques. A lot of them are the same as what you describe as "thai training techniques". So what makes thai superior again? You say intensity? You can't use intensity in any other art?? Even if YOU do have more intensity and that is all you have said as an argument that thai is better. Then how does that make thai boxing better? Doesn't that just mean that you have worked harder at your thai boxing. If you don't put any effort in your other arts that you had taken, then why do you think that you didn't get anything out of it????? __________________ I apologize for anything I am, will, or have said that will or may offend you. I take no responsibility for my words/actions and will not be punished.

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