Why Is French Savate So Ignored? - Page 2

MuayThaiFighter · 10-22-2003, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Maxetai
Why is French Savate so ignored?
Even Bruce Lee was more of a Savate man from kicking range than anything else. It is so evident how he would stick out his rear hand: just like the classical Savate practitioners.

So I pose this question to you: Why is Savate so ignored to the point of being on the fringe of Martial Arts?
Is it the Savate federation to blame?
Is it because it's a European (French) art and not Asian that makes it less glamorous?

I would appreciate your views.

I think you have basically answered your own question.

MuayThaiFighter · 10-22-2003, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Szczepankiewicz
I was under the impression that 'savate' translated into English as "I Surrender"

Am I not correct in this line of thought?

Actually you are incorrect "savate" translated into English means to kick.

darrianation · 10-22-2003, 10:37 PM

So are we all in agreement that savate gays... oh I mean guys have tight girly wear and prance around trying to act like MT fighters, but with cool accents.

Tom Yum · 10-23-2003, 12:03 AM

Do you think Savate guys get more chicks? C'mon Muaythai fighter, start the poll!

Roland · 10-23-2003, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MuayThaiFighter

Actually you are incorrect "savate" translated into English means to kick.

Actually, "savate" refers to the shoe that is/was worn.

jules · 10-23-2003, 01:17 AM

Quote:

So I pose this question to you: Why is Savate so ignored to the point of being on the fringe of Martial Arts?
Is it the Savate federation to blame?
Is it because it's a European (French) art and not Asian that makes it less glamorous?

Because Savate guys have not dominated Kickboxing like MT guys. IF the style dominates like MT it will be popluar.

Toudiyama[NL] · 10-23-2003, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Roland

Actually, "savate" refers to the shoe that is/was worn.

Actially Old shoe or boot, it is slang, because they would kick eachother in there everyday footwear

Savate now is a combination of the old savate that didn't have high kick and closed fist punches, Chauson, that did, and english boxing

Jules:
to me that's funny, in my country if someone enters a Kickboxing match he's a kickboxer, if in a MT event a thaiboxer and of coarse in a Savate event a Savatefighter
And I believe in the rest of Europe that's the same, I think becausenobody would step into any full contact event without proper preperation

jules · 10-23-2003, 04:51 AM

Quote:

to me that's funny, in my country if someone enters a Kickboxing match he's a kickboxer, if in a MT event a thaiboxer and of coarse in a Savate event a Savatefighter
And I believe in the rest of Europe that's the same, I think becausenobody would step into any full contact event without proper preperation.

Dude there are mixed stricking leagues such as K-1 and their regional finals. K-1 has karate, kickboxing and MT (even shan sao), if a Savater wins a K-1 GP then people will start to look into savat more.

Toudiyama[NL] · 10-23-2003, 07:37 AM

I know but I do not consider K1 MMA, the rules are almost the same as european kickboxing, of coarse everyone can enter but you still have to stick to the rules,

BTW I've heard the same argument about karate even though there are karateka doing good in K1

AND, why would they have to just to become popular as sport, you don't ask a soccerplayer to enter a Amerocan Football match just to become a popular sport (

you ask nice girls to enter

)

darrianation · 10-23-2003, 10:27 AM

Bring on Warren...oops I mean Bob Sapp!

jules · 10-23-2003, 11:51 AM

Quote:

I know but I do not consider K1 MMA

That's why i did not say "Mixed Martial Arts". I said "Mixed stricking" meaning different stricking styles comming and competing against each other.

Quote:

BTW I've heard the same argument about karate even though there are karateka doing good in K1 .

Other than Filio i can't name a karateka that is doing well in K-1 now.... And i would not really consider Kokusin a "karate".

Quote:

why would they have to just to become popular as sport

Because it gives it credibility, beating the other arts is the fastest way.

Toudiyama[NL] · 10-24-2003, 01:58 AM

Kyokushin is Karate, they consider themself Karate, they have Kata, just like others, it's just full contact, that's the biggest difference
Just saying it isn't Karate because it is full contact, is BS, then you are doing that so one can say there aren't any Karateka doing good in K1 or the likes of it
And therefore I think Cregi (spelling?) is a Karateka, and doing fine

Building credibiliity you say, for what, Savate is considered a sport, as is MT or KB here in My country.
I've got the feeling that this is something really an American thing, wanting to prove which art is best,
A dutch guy like Gilbert Yvel, although he came from MT/kickboxing, now consideres hinself as freefighter ( freefight being the term used for pride/rings sryle of matches)
Hoost is a K1 fighter ass is Remy Bonjaski
Do you think it was neccesary for the south african boxer to enter K1 to show the credibility of boxing? or for that matter does any boxer need to enter a MMA or mixed striking event to prove the dredibility of Boxing, if not then why do Savate and any traditional art like karate have to?, only to satisfy peoples wishes to say:"My art is better than yours"? Hope not

Maxetai · 10-24-2003, 04:25 AM

Quote:

Do you think it was neccesary for the south african boxer to enter K1 to show the credibility of boxing? or for that matter does any boxer need to enter a MMA or mixed striking event to prove the dredibility of Boxing, if not then why do Savate and any traditional art like karate have to?, only to satisfy peoples wishes to say:"My art is better than yours"? Hope not

I agree with you Toudiyama on your above quote.
I guess then that the Savate organization is doing a pretty bad job in promoting Savate. If this is the case then it's a shame since Savate has so much to offer a martial artist at least from kicking range.

jules · 10-24-2003, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Building credibiliity you say, for what, Savate is considered a sport, as is MT or KB here in My country.
I've got the feeling that this is something really an American thing, wanting to prove which art is best,..

It has nothing to do with "being american", why do people flock to BJJ? Because it has proved it's effectiveness in events like UFC, KOTC, and Pride. Why are more and more people going to MT? becuase it has proven it's effectiveness.

Quote:

A dutch guy like Gilbert Yvel, although he came from MT/kickboxing, now consideres hinself as freefighter ( freefight being the term used for pride/rings sryle of matches)

Becuase he grapples as well as he strikes, but if you ask him "what does your "freefight" consist of?" he will give you the names of the styes he intergrated into is system.

Quote:

Hoost is a K1 fighter ass is Remy Bonjaski

Are they Savate practioners? I don't understand why you are bringing up their names...

Quote:

Do you think it was neccesary for the south african boxer to enter K1 to show the credibility of boxing?

Boxing has proven itself in MMA. The use of boxing instructors and "modified boxing" such as "crazy money" is now commonplace among MMA fighters; as well as BJJ instructors, and MT instructors.

Quote:

or for that matter does any boxer need to enter a MMA or mixed striking event to prove the dredibility of Boxing, if not then why do Savate and any traditional art like karate have to?

Boxing has been used in MMA since it's conception, the Lions Den, Brazilian Top Team and other major MMA teams use boxing instructors. Why do they bring in Boxing instructors? Because it works. Besides why would a good boxer go into MMA (unless he is over the hill and no one want's to see him fight such as Brotha and Tyson)? The money is too good in boxing. You can earn millions in a night as comapred to tens of thousands in MMA.

[quote] only to satisfy peoples wishes to say:"My art is better than yours"? Hope not[/quote

No to actually put their money where their mouth is. The reason why more and more people are going to BJJ is because it is effective not because it is " because it's a European (French) art and not Asian that makes it less glamorous." People flock to BJJ because of the same reason people flock to MT. They have proven themselves. I remeber a Dominick Gordeau(sp) attempting to compete in K-1... ouch...

Maxetai · 10-24-2003, 05:56 PM

Jules,
I understand your points and they make sense.

But my original question was: Why is French Savate si ignored?

How many people know that Bruce Lee was heavily into Savate?
Lee's kicking range comprised of nearly all Savate style kicks and not MT or Karate or TKD as is mistakingly believed by many today.
Where have you seen this mentioned? Not in many books about Lee, not in magazine articles, almost nowhere!
Why?

I agree with you Jules that if Savate practitioners start winning some MMA tournaments then the art will be much more noticed. But the art has a great deal of merit right now but is nowhere near the status of Karate, TKD, Judo, Ju Jitsu, Kung Fu and other Asian martial arts.

I for one am not convinced of a styles effectiveness in the street because some people claiming to use that style have won some MMA tournaments. I can determine myself what works for me and what doesn't. No other person other than myself can make this determination. Especially not most of those guys that participate in MMA.

10-22-2003, 10:37 PM	#18 (permalink)
darrianation Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 2,161 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	So are we all in agreement that savate gays... oh I mean guys have tight girly wear and prance around trying to act like MT fighters, but with cool accents. __________________ The law of tyranny: 1. Any power that can be abused will be abused 2. Abuse always expands to fill the limits of resistance to it. 3. If people don't resist the abuses of others, they will have no one to resist the abuses of themselves, and tyranny will prevail. Welcome to the Socialist States of Amerika . Coming soon Jan 20th 2009!

10-23-2003, 07:37 AM	#24 (permalink)
Toudiyama[NL] Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Zaandam, Netherlands Posts: 1,389 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	I know but I do not consider K1 MMA, the rules are almost the same as european kickboxing, of coarse everyone can enter but you still have to stick to the rules, BTW I've heard the same argument about karate even though there are karateka doing good in K1 AND, why would they have to just to become popular as sport, you don't ask a soccerplayer to enter a Amerocan Football match just to become a popular sport ( you ask nice girls to enter ) __________________

10-23-2003, 10:27 AM	#25 (permalink)
darrianation Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 2,161 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Bring on Warren...oops I mean Bob Sapp! __________________ The law of tyranny: 1. Any power that can be abused will be abused 2. Abuse always expands to fill the limits of resistance to it. 3. If people don't resist the abuses of others, they will have no one to resist the abuses of themselves, and tyranny will prevail. Welcome to the Socialist States of Amerika . Coming soon Jan 20th 2009!

10-24-2003, 01:58 AM	#27 (permalink)
Toudiyama[NL] Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Zaandam, Netherlands Posts: 1,389 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Kyokushin is Karate, they consider themself Karate, they have Kata, just like others, it's just full contact, that's the biggest difference Just saying it isn't Karate because it is full contact, is BS, then you are doing that so one can say there aren't any Karateka doing good in K1 or the likes of it And therefore I think Cregi (spelling?) is a Karateka, and doing fine Building credibiliity you say, for what, Savate is considered a sport, as is MT or KB here in My country. I've got the feeling that this is something really an American thing, wanting to prove which art is best, A dutch guy like Gilbert Yvel, although he came from MT/kickboxing, now consideres hinself as freefighter ( freefight being the term used for pride/rings sryle of matches) Hoost is a K1 fighter ass is Remy Bonjaski Do you think it was neccesary for the south african boxer to enter K1 to show the credibility of boxing? or for that matter does any boxer need to enter a MMA or mixed striking event to prove the dredibility of Boxing, if not then why do Savate and any traditional art like karate have to?, only to satisfy peoples wishes to say:"My art is better than yours"? Hope not __________________

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10-23-2003, 12:03 AM	#19 (permalink)
Tom Yum Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Here and there. Posts: 11,307 Groans: 1 Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts	Do you think Savate guys get more chicks? C'mon Muaythai fighter, start the poll!

10-24-2003, 05:56 PM	#30 (permalink)
Maxetai Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Thessaloniki, Greece Posts: 151 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Jules, I understand your points and they make sense. But my original question was: Why is French Savate si ignored? How many people know that Bruce Lee was heavily into Savate? Lee's kicking range comprised of nearly all Savate style kicks and not MT or Karate or TKD as is mistakingly believed by many today. Where have you seen this mentioned? Not in many books about Lee, not in magazine articles, almost nowhere! Why? I agree with you Jules that if Savate practitioners start winning some MMA tournaments then the art will be much more noticed. But the art has a great deal of merit right now but is nowhere near the status of Karate, TKD, Judo, Ju Jitsu, Kung Fu and other Asian martial arts. I for one am not convinced of a styles effectiveness in the street because some people claiming to use that style have won some MMA tournaments. I can determine myself what works for me and what doesn't. No other person other than myself can make this determination. Especially not most of those guys that participate in MMA.

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