bvermillion

I was wondering how most the instructors in here started there own school money wise. Did you save the money or take out loans. I only really have to options. My instructor has offered to build a school to my specifications with whatever amenities I feel I need within reason and it would be his school I would just teach at it. I would have the oppurtunity to buy him out though when ever I came up with the money. While I am teaching there profits will be split 50/50 when there finally is a profit. He has already done this for two other students one has bought him out and the other is still in the process of buying him out. I could go that route with my instructor but I would prefer to make it on my own. Do any of you know what standards I would have to meet to get a small business loan or grants? Any advice on starting a new school would be much appreciated also.

eXcessiveForce

I started with $800 and a lot of long days and nights. I also ended up often doing two jobs in the beginning so that I made sure the school could grow. I was also going to school full time as well.

If your instructor is willing to help you do it. If you think you have the ability to teach and the desire. If you do it because you love it you will do okay. if you do it for the pay you won't last a year.

Shifting risk to someone else is a really good idea. Chances are you will put your first school into the ground anyway because of stupid mistakes. But it's all part of the learning process.

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fcokeefe

I am still in the process of opening a "full time commercial school". I teach out of a church and started with a yellow page ad. I am saving everything I can to open a full time location. I also have a small group of students that I am working to have as asst. instructors to help out so I can eat dinner at a reasonable time once in awhile. You are lucky if you have a source that can help in the manner he is offering. You should jump at it, just watch out for what he wants out of the deal, read the fine print. I learned that you can trust them in the dojo to have your best intrest at heart. But when it comes to money, CYA no one else will.

I once had a instructor that found out that I have a large amount of equity in my home. He wanted me to take out a second morgage on my house to go in halves with him. He figured that I could put all the cash, cover 100% of the classes and run the business while he sat back and popped in once in a while to collect his half for using his school name (by the way he had one real small unestablished school). I was ready to put myself in debt, risk it all while he risked nothing and did nothing and got half the profits (sounds good huh). I was chomping at the bit till he said I was going to have to clean the windows, that's when I said "let me think about it". I thought he was smoking crack or had a gambling problem (I live in Las Vegas) and stayed away from any coversation about opening a school with him ever again. To this day, and its been a very, very long time, I have not given him an answer about going in halves and I have started the process for me to open a school without him and without going into debt.

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osopardo

Don't know nothin' 'bout runnin no school...

But I do know a little bit about running a small business.

1. Read the fine print - no matter how fine, no matter how boring. If you don't understand it or it makes you cross-eyed, rest and read it again!

2. Separate the money. There's the money you need to live on (food, shelter, clothing, medical insurance, Christmas and birthday gifts) and the money you need to run the business. One must never be sacrificed for the other.

3. Determine whether there is indeed a need for yet another school in your area. How many other schools will you be in competition against? Client loyalty plays a BIG factor in this particular case. MA students are not fickle shoppers.

4. Avoid any business that requires your full-time presence in order to run properly. There's only so many hours in the day and only so much you can do, and that's the limit. It's all about billable hours. If you can only bill 30 hours per week and it doesn't cover your expenses then you have to bill more hours or go out of business. This usually means volume growth - more classes per day conducted by more instructors.

5. Be aware of the Peter Principle "Everyone rises to their optimum level of incompetence." Just because you're a good martial artist or even a good teacher doesn't mean you're a good business owner. In that case it's sometimes better to work for someone else and let them handle the business headaches while you do what you enjoy and do best.

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bvermillion

Do you know any thing specifically about small business loans?

eXcessiveForce

SBA loans are tough to get.

You need to put up collateral , you need an awesome business plan. Experience in the business world. I bank that is willing to give you the loan that the SBA will back.

If you are a minority you have a better chance at getting them. The same goes with government grants.

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eXcessiveFORCE.

If you must use force, make it excessive.

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bvermillion

I know that it depends on the size of the loan but do you have an idea what kind of colleteral is required? I respect your opinion excessive so I will ask you a question. I have been considering joining the army after I recieve my blackbelt I will have just turned 19. The only argument against this is the possibility of going to war which is high right now. Now for the good sides of this college would be paid for and I could get va loans hopefully and I would have the oppurtunity to experience alot of martial arts. What do you think? If you think it is a bad idea tell me why.

eXcessiveForce

Last time I looked into it, loan rate was at high as 20% with the minimum loan for 100,000. There are microloans but I don't remember much about them. It was not an option for me when I looked at opening my school.

As for the army that's a tough call. I personally would never enlist into the military. If I could get into the academy that would be a different story. It is much better to be an officer. There is nothing wrong with the military, many of my students have gone into the army as a matter of fact. One is in Iraq and the other set the base fitness record at fort campbell, KY. That was a few years ago since he got out as soon as he could.

With out knowing you a little better I really can't give you any help on that. right now in my opinion the chances of ending up in a dangerous area outweight the few grand they give you for college.

I applied to the air force academy but when I found out I could not fly because of my eyes I decided to forget about military service. It can be a rewarding experience but most people I have talked to hate it.


As for the loans, see if you can find a local SCORE office they can give you some good advise. I would advise not going into debt to open a new business unless you are prepared for the worst. Most businesses fail in the first year.

I used to drive down to see my girlfriend all the time and one day a kung fu school opened up. I kept meaning to stop in and say hi to the guy but never got the time. Anyway he sat in the building by himself and played on his computer waiting for students to start streaming in I guess. Two months later the school was gone. It was sad to see him sitting in this big building with a glass front back to the windows sitting at the computer on what would have been a good teaching time.

Also a word of caution on teaching for the ATA. the ATA has absolutely no loyalty towards their instructors. They only care about how much money you can make them. I know this from personal experience.

good luck

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eXcessiveFORCE.

If you must use force, make it excessive.

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NWPTrainer

I am not Excessive, but decided to offer a few words on the subject of this post.....
1) If you are not willing to go to war and risk killing or being killed, do not join the army. That is what soldiers do. Enlisting just for the college money or other benefits is what leads to people getting unnecessarily killed, because the people that enlist for those reasons do not GENERALLY possess the motivation to train for war. They are the guys and girls that blow off weapons and equiment maintenance because they would rather sit in the barracks and play XBox or whatever the latest videogame is. If you are going to enlist in the military, EXPECIALLY in a time of war, do it because you want to serve your country as a soldier, including, if necessary, going into combat and killing those people that have been determined to be the enemies of your country. Regardless of your personal political views, as a soldier, you fight and kill the people you are told to. Even those who go into non-combat MOSs can sudeenly find themselves thrust into situations where there is a sudden but serious need to fight for the survival of self or comrades.

Yes, if you do enlist, and make it through all your training and your whole enlistment, including a possible combat tour, you will get a lot of money for college. Yes, you will be eligible for a VA-backed home loan, and other government assistance.

You will also get the greatest training in the underlying PRINCILES of war that can be gotten, from the finest institution of its type in the history of the world. You will also get the self-drive and confidence to face up to most low-lifes you will ever meet. You might even develop the courage to walk into a potentilly deadly situation, no matter how scared you are, simply becuse it is what needs to be done. What you will not get is a course in "how to defeat a hundred bad guys in ten easy steps."

THe absolute most rewarding thing you will get from a successful enlistment in the military however is greater than all of these...You will have, for the rest of your life, the pride in the knowledge that when your nation, society, and world needed people of stout moral fiber, YOU stood up and answered the call. When God, your country, and it's leaders said, "Who will go for us?" You said, "Here, I am, I will go."

That is a reason to join the military....Not because you want the governement to pay for your school, and damned sure not because you think you;re going to learn how to be a billy-bad ass....

RLTW

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bvermillion

That is definately not me. I am not just going in for the money. I am prepared to fight for my country. My goal had always been to go to college join OCS and become an officer in the military. BUT then I started martial arts. It has been one of the greatest things in my life. I already teach regualarly but I want a school of my own. So that sidetracked the whole military idea. Until I got to thinking about all the pros of joining.

fcokeefe

Very good. But here are a couple of points that you may not have thought about. While I was in the Army they told me what my life expectancy was (how long I would live in time of conflict). Now seeing I had what was concidered a high risk job it wasn't good. The life expectancy for my MOS (54 Bravo - Neucular, Biological, Chemical warfare spercialist) was less than 30 minutes. It is one thing to be willing to fight for your country and another to WANT to fight for your country. All I am saying is becareful of what you wish for, you may just get it. I am not trying to sway you from joining the military, go for it. If that is what you want. Just go into it with you eyes wide open and a heart full of life, not a chest full bravado (that will get you killed (quick). WHO RA!!!

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eXcessiveForce

On a side note, the purpose of military service is not to die for your country.

I think it was Patton who said, "the object is not to die for one's country, it's to make the other poor son of a bitch die for his."

While it is true that you could be killed in combat that is not why you are there. Also there are many veterans who have been in combat who are still alive.

The question is if you are entering the military, Do you want to be the one risking your life or not. Some people will choose to fight others will choose to let others fight.

Personally I do not want to go to war. I'd probably be dead in a few hours. However if you are entering the military just because it seems like you get a lot of perks for doing it then you should not join. there are better jobs in terms of compensation and perks than the military. And most of those jobs do not involve risking your life.

About the school. I don't remember if i said this or not already but I would not go into debt to open a martial arts school. They are a tough business and what would happen if it goes out of business and you are left with a bunch of debt and nothing to show for it.

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If you must use force, make it excessive.

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bvermillion

I have to disagree. But feel free to list an occupation that has better compensation. I dont mind being proven wrong. But I dont know any occupation that offers 100% free medical benefits to you and your family. I dont know any other job that allows you to shop at grocerey stores and department stores that are off limits to civilians and are consistently cheaper. I dont know many jobs that supply housing. And I deffinately dont know of any that offer all of the perks in the military: maybe a few but definately not all.

eXcessiveForce

There are no enlisted military making 80,000 a year. I did financial planning for military families and I made much more than most of them.

Even generals are not making 200K a year. You may get free medical and no tax at the commisary but when it comes to income it is not very high. Many people leave the military to become contractors doing the same job at the same place for more money.

It is okay pay. But sales will pay infinitely more with no risk of being shot at. (okay well a little risk)

I know people who work 3 days a week selling insurance who are making almost a million a year. Not to mention the corporate executives taht are making several million.

Also, the medical care is crap. Many officers pay to take their families to regular hospitials. One of my clients was killed by the Naval hospital she went too. It could easily have been avoided but they didn't care.

Sometimes it really is you get what you pay for.

many military families especially enlisted are in terrible shape financially. I have dealt with hundreds of them. And i worked for a company that only works with military families and by an large they are underpaid for the risks they are taking.

I'm glad they do it but they are underpaid.

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eXcessiveFORCE.

If you must use force, make it excessive.

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A success and achievement community

IPON

BVER - I don't own a MA school but I do have some thoughts. First, I would say look at your age and rank (no flame seriously).

I assume that you are not yet 19 maybe still in HS or just graduated It is a heavy responsibility running your own business at that age (honestly at any age). At 19, I was interested in hangiung out, clubs, women etc. I was in college but I certainly wouyld not want the resonsibility of a business.

The problem, generally speaking, with starting a school as your primary source of income is that you have to protect your bottom line, gross earnings. In order to maintain your bottom like you may have to make sacrafices to keep customers in this is tyhe beginning of the McDojo syndrome. The question is what is your primary reason for teaching, just profit or love of MA. If the primary reason is just profit the McDojo syndrome means very little to you and you will directly/indirectly be contributing to MA decline that we all discuss so frequently. If it is love of MA or your style then patience is a virtue. I think the most successful businesses start with long term planning starting small as a partime job, offering classes in a temp space, building a base and reputation and then getting the loans after you assessed the risk/benefit. Below are some links for you

http://www.sba.gov/
http://smallbusinessloans.com


I think one of the most critical apects of owning a business is finding a competent CPA (and believe me you need one). No national chains like H&R Block, it is better to find an independent and you should check a few. What you don't want is IRS audits. I usually ask the CPA how many sucessful they have been representing thier client with audits (ratio). This has a dual purpose as it is a way to find out how often the clients are audited, if it is a high % that speaks about the claibre of the CPA. Also, don't go any further than limited power of attorney, never give anyone power to sign your checks as a small business (maintain control of you finances) - as a MA school you should not have that many "employees"

Regarding Rank you indicate that you are teaching now but will recieve your BB at 19, (again no flame) but is it normal for a BB to run an independent school, in other words just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. Usually, it is 3rd 4th dan that is authorized to teach indepently, but not less than 2nd dan, though is may bedifferent with some TDK orgs.

You really have to know yourself there are some great teachers who are horrible business people (and, unfortunately the reverse). You should think of location, accessability, and competition. I have seen many schools close as excessiveforce stated in a realitivly short time and the main reason is that they have no finnacial base, the assumption is that when they open the doors people will just come in and $$. You may operate at a loss for a year or more and how will you survive??? getting a loan is the last thing you want to do you will be in debt and eff-up your credit. We live in a world now where if you are 30 days late twice you FICO score can drop 150 points and you are treated like a criminal, just a consideration.

Regarding the army, it sounds like this was your plan, and if so go for it. The college loans though I must say I have a lot of family members in the Armed forces and I have heard some horror stories about actually getting the money, ebvne while I was in colllege I know many students that struggled at the brusar's office with these loans, again just a consideration to read the small print. My 1st cousin (more like my brother) went into the army becuase they told him he would take classes while inside and after his term it would be the equivilant of 2 years of college. While inside he was denied opporunities to take necessary courses, so he got jerked. Now this is not everyone, but it did happen so again smething to think about.

Just my thoughts

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A person who is said to be proficient in the arts is like a fool. Because of his foolishness in concerning himself with just one thing, he thinks of nothing else and thus becomes proficient. - Hagarkure