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Tactical Military and Law-Enforcement Training Please do not post operational details of current or past missions that could compromise the people on the ground right now. This is not a forum for the discussion of current doctrine, but for the exchange of training ideas that will give US soldier


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Old 08-17-2005, 10:26 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Going to fight in Iraq? Lessons from an infantry company commander

By Capt. Daniel Morgan
Editor's Note: Capt. Morgan is former commander of Headquarters and
Headquarters Company, 3rd Battalion, 502nd Infantry Regiment, 101st Airborne
Division (Air Assault).
I have spent eleven months in Iraq fighting this war as a company commander,
starting from the berm in Kuwait to Mosul, Iraq. My soldiers and I have
learned a tremendous amount of lessons, shared many successes, and witnessed
horrific injuries on our fellow soldiers. We never failed to conduct an AAR
or hotwash after an operation, despite the success, failure or casualties. I
want to share some TTPs and SOPs with as many as possible because this fight
ebbs and flows with short, shocking violence that "always being prepared"
becomes more than just a cliché. You will never know when you will be
attacked - it just happens.
An explosion rocks the vehicle in front of you, throwing soldiers onto the
street. You see the vehicle rise up onto two wheels before settling and
rolling to a stop. AK-47 fire and RPGs are heard almost simultaneously. Your
soldiers stagger about trying to shake off the effects of the concussion.
Some fire wildly in different directions because the cracking of the AK-47s
are echoing off the buildings, so you cannot pinpoint the direction of fire.
The battle drill says to clear the kill zone, but you have competing
priorities. First, you have casualties that need to be secured, assessed and
stabilized. Second, if you run, you won't kill the enemy or deter them. You
must fight back and hopefully kill them. Do you stay in the kill zone and
fight?
This happened to my soldiers and me. Sadly, this has happened to my company
and me on several occasions in various forms. On this day, I lost a platoon
sergeant and it was a devastating experience to many soldiers. He is alive
but when I got to that truck he was a pile of blood and matter. His leg was
completely blown off with shrapnel wounds all over him. He stayed there as
we secured everything, trying to still lead his soldiers. We fought back
that day, killing one suspected enemy and detaining two more. This reaction
occurred due to rehearsals, AARs, aggressive leadership at every level, and
discipline.
A hunch tells me that not much will change for months or a couple of years
in how we do daily business in Iraq. Operations will be basically broken
down into four areas. First, you need to clear Main Supply Routes (MSRs) of
Improvised Explosive Devices (IEDs). Second, platoons will conduct cordon
and searches against a neighborhood, store, market or house. Third, units
will conduct patrols to provide a presence in an area, enhancing security.
Finally, units will conduct civil-military operations simultaneously with
the first three operations. These operations require patrolling in an urban
environment, mounted and dismounted, leaving you vulnerable.
You must always be on the offensive. You cannot assume that you are on a
security presence patrol. It is always a movement to contact. Company
commanders must plan every patrol in this mindset and give specified tasks
that accomplish the overall mission. For example, if you are going to
conduct a patrol down a heavily congested market street in order to
distribute information, treat it as a movement to contact and be on the
offensive. Give a subordinate unit the task to distribute newsletters or
flyers and use the remaining elements to provide security - ready to fight.
This offensive spirit increases force protection and prepares you to gain
the initiative immediately upon contact.
I hope to provide leaders who come to Iraq, Afghanistan, or anywhere else in
the future some ideas for training and preparing to fight in this
environment. This environment consists of two factors - urban fighting and
civil-military operations. The fight at the company level requires both
skills and capabilities. Many factors are out of your control and many
assets needed for Stability and Support Operations (SASO) are not part of
your division or brigade force structure, much less battalion. So, you must
control what you can and that is urban patrolling, force protection, company
level information operations, and home station training.
Urban patrolling
The more the terrorist succeeds in wounding or killing US soldiers, the more
he is emboldened to do it again. You must instill in your soldiers that we
will fight back into the ambush. 99% of the time you already have fire
superiority, so use it immediately. Train your soldiers to be scanning
rooftops, looking across open fields (the enemy wants some stand off and the
ability to run), and providing overwatch at every moment. These three
factors are key whether you are conducting mounted or dismounted patrols.
You must do a patrol brief every time you depart the gate and never cease
communicating and cross-talking between each other.
The most important part of the urban patrol is the threat environment. The
congestion and overpopulation in these areas endanger any US patrol at any
time. If you lack the number of boots on the ground, you could find yourself
in a predicament where you get overwhelmed by an angry mob. For example, you
are leading a three-vehicle convoy in the city center with just a squad and
three enemy insurgents attack with AK-47s. You return effective fire,
killing or wounding the attackers. You dismount and secure the area.
However, your return fire upset many citizens and now you are surrounded.
This is the dilemma. You can never take a patrol for granted.
The urban patrol, dismounted or mounted, must have sufficient boots on the
ground to secure a casualty, set up an overwatch/support by fire position,
and maneuver. The challenge to this patrol is that, depending on the
direction of the attack against you and where in your patrol you were
attacked, every element must be prepared to assume each role. Leaders must
establish standard formations with sectors of fire. If mounted, face out 360
degrees (do not have the soldiers twist to look over their soldiers - - see
vehicle preparation), ensure soldiers alternate high-low in their sectors,
and always attack into the enemy to kill or capture them.
Patrols for Improvised Explosive Devices (IED) require boots on the ground.
A mounted patrol for IEDs limits the ability to identify a potential IED and
provides a likely target since the vehicles travel slowly. The vehicles can
trail the patrol to provide rapid response if needed. The purpose is to
identify an IED to eliminate any target for the enemy and destroy the IED in
place. The IED patrol focuses on Main Supply Routes (MSR), avenues of
approach in and out of battalion and company command posts, and LOGPAC
routes. These three routes must be cleared prior to any movement,
demonstrating the importance of the IED patrol for a company.
IED patrols require dismounted soldiers with the lead team using binoculars,
spotting scopes, or some type of magnified observation device. During
limited visibility hours, you will need high powered, hand-held spotlights.
Your lead clearing elements must have interlocking fields of observation and
never hesitate to halt the patrol upon anything suspicious. The trail teams
must first provide overwatch, so the lead teams can effectively search for
IEDs. The trail team's secondary task is to maneuver against enemy forces
and/or cordon the area. You must rehearse this patrol because it is
paramount to saving lives.
Routine dismounted patrols must be conducted in sector, despite the risks a
commander may have in its execution. A mounted patrol through sector fails
to provide adequate presence and does not lend itself to winning the hearts
and minds of the local population. The best way to mitigate the risk is more
boots on the ground, meaning never patrol dismounted with less than a
platoon. The dismounted patrol requires intense observation and readiness.
Vehicles must be prepared to reinforce the patrol for an attack or
exfiltration. These patrols must be conducted two to three times a week
during specific times of the day to secure the environment and promote unity
and cooperation in sector.
The dismounted patrol must have a purpose more than a presence. Platoon and
squad leaders must engage storeowners, bystanders, and others to gather
information. This patrol provides the best means to a stable, cooperative
company sector. Nevertheless, security precautions must be taken to protect
the troops. First, three-dimensional observation must be maintained
continuously. Second, communication between leaders, vehicles, and the
company CP cannot be overlooked - higher needs to know where you are! Third,
treat it as a movement to contact even though you are out talking to the
people. At any time, a grenade will come from the rooftops and you must go
after them with violence of action and speed.
Leaders must be prepared to react to contact from any direction - left,
right, front, rear, or above. The urban area lends itself to distraction -
pretty girls, vendors selling soda or ice cream, vehicle traffic, large
crowds around vendors, etc. In this threat environment, the enemy will
choose the time, place, and type of attack. The enemy will run after a brief
attack. It is up to you to react quick enough to kill or capture them.
Leaders must immediately maneuver against the enemy, while simultaneously
isolating the area and providing overwatch for the maneuver force or any
casualties. Let the leader pull you back if he needs the forces to conduct
casualty evacuation.
The mounted patrol occurs everyday, whether conducting a dismounted patrol
out in sector or attending a meeting with local officials. The mounted
patrol requires constant vigilance by every soldier. Leaders must have a SOP
upon contact. If you want to prevent attacks, then, if the situation
permits, you dismount and fight or maneuver. Again, the course of action
depends on the number of boots on the ground. If you are in a three-vehicle
convoy with three soldiers per vehicle and you are attacked and receive
casualties, you probably will clear the kill zone and call in the location
and contact report. However, the more you withdraw and not fight back, the
more they will attack. In boldness, lies safety.
I adopted a SOP called the Button Hook, which is derived from how a unit
attempts to capture or kill a sniper. A mounted patrol receives enemy
machine gun fire and RPGs. The "Button Hook" calls for the immediate cordon
of the suspected area by surrounding the block with its vehicles, sealing
off possible enemy escape routes. The convoy commander simultaneously calls
for OH-58D Kiowas to reinforce the cordon and to identify escaping personnel
or suspected vehicles. If the convoy commander has the forces, he begins to
clear the area from the most likely target to the least likely target. If he
lacks the forces, he maintains the cordon and calls for the QRF infantry.
This course of action will lead to the capture of the attackers or to some
information.
Soldiers cannot afford to relax during mounted patrols. In a four-vehicle
patrol, the leader leads the convoy. The second truck maintains a mounted
crew-served machine gun, as does the trail vehicle. The third vehicle can
vary in its composition and purpose. The lead vehicle sets the speed and
path of the convoy. His main purpose is navigation and searching for
possible IEDs. When passing under bridges, gunners must observe the approach
and then the departure on the other side of the bridge. Everyone has a
purpose and everyone must know what to do upon contact.
The lead truck has a challenge as it navigates through the city. This is a
leader's responsibility and should not be delegated. For example, I was
leading a convoy in the evening hours - a popular time for ambushes and
IEDs. As we approached a vehicle with a driver inside, I saw him on a phone
through his rear window. He spoke on the phone and drove away before we
passed him. I immediately changed our route by taking a right through a
neighborhood, avoiding the intersection. I do not know if we avoided a
possible IED ambush or not, but it is better to suppose that this car and
its driver were an early warning for an ambush.
Enemy forces emplace IEDs at key intersections, where our vehicles slow down
and get closer to one another. The lead vehicle needs to surround the convoy
with civilian vehicles and allow other vehicles in between their convoy.
This tactic disrupts the enemy as he tries to target the convoy. In
addition, speed of travel is an ally here. Leaders must balance speed and
safety in their travels. The last thing that needs to happen is we run over
Iraqi pedestrians and vehicles, or flip one of our own. However, it is
harder to attack a convoy, if it is moving at a high rate of speed.
Leaders have TTPs in how to avoid IEDs and possible kill zones, but some
areas are inevitable. For example, as I lead convoys into an intersection
where we will turn right, my RTO moves the vehicle as far left as possible.
On turns, most IEDs, if not all, are placed on the inside turn. This left
position as we turn right increases space between us and a possible IED. In
addition, since we are turning right, I can observe and clear the left side
of the road and curb of possible IEDs. I cannot see the right side until it
would be too late. As we enter the turn, my RTO observes the traffic and we
pick up speed, like a slingshot into traffic. Wide, fast turns protect t
he
force.
__________________

"In all countries where personal freedom is valued, however much each individual may rely on legal redress, the right of each to carry arms - and these the best and the sharpest - for his own protection in case of extremity, is a right of nature indelible and irrepressible, and the more it is sought to be repressed the more it will recur."


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Old 08-17-2005, 10:29 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Pt. 2

Lastly, units will conduct hundreds of cordon and searches - all different
with varying degrees of aggressiveness on entry. These operations emerge
from human intelligence against a specific target or during a "neighborhood
surge," meaning soldiers flood an area to search homes with or without
permission. The level of aggression will be determined by your command.
Basic task organization still applies as every leader learns in military
schools. However, units can NEVER fail to isolate a target. Isolation of an
objective must be paramount in planning these operations, especially in this
urban environment.
Urban environments present so many threats, ranging from rooftop shootings
and drive-by shootings to civil unrest against the cordon and search.
Leaders must isolate the objective and sub-objectives throughout the entire
cordon and search operation. Isolation does not stop at the block the house
is located. It goes from there to the house to the front door and into each
room in the house. Isolating each portion of the objective protects your
soldiers and allows you to react to any contingency that may arise during a
search. Isolation requires more forces, but it facilitates a smooth
operation by reducing distractions and threats to your soldiers.
Home station training
You must train your soldiers in battle drills and take the necessary
preparations prior to your arrival. We learned as we went along day-by-day.
AARs and hotwashes every time are key to success, but training at home
station or in an ISB greatly improve your chances for success and survival.
Second, units must prepare their vehicles for patrols and force protection
in static positions. Third, everyone needs to critique themselves and the
unit to refine and improve their actions on the battlefield.
Actual training for this threat environment remains fairly standard - minus
certain non-standard situations not found in many MTPs. The urban
environment in Iraq can be replicated at any military post urban training
site. I would focus on four aspects in training: 1) Marksmanship; 2)
CASEVAC, including aerial; 3) Enter and Clear a Building and Room; and 4)
React to Contact from a vehicle, a non-standard task and dismounted. Each of
these training areas must be graduated in difficulty and in an urban threat
environment. A unit that trains on these areas with an unrelenting focus and
discipline will succeed in this environment.
Marksmanship is the core of excellence for an infantry soldier. Their
proficiency in killing wins the battle. The more you suppress a target here
without killing or wounding the enemy, the bolder he becomes in attacking
you. You need to train your soldiers to aim, fire, and kill. If an enemy
opens fire with an AK-47 aimlessly, which most of these people do, you
should be able to calmly place the red dot reticule of your M-68 optic
device on his chest and kill him with one shot. If you do this, the rest
will run and probably not come back. This skill takes training, patience,
and sadly, experience.
Units must familiarize themselves with every weapon system in a battalion.
Soldiers must know how to load, fire, clear, and reduce stoppages and
misfires of every crew served weapon. In combat, due to personnel
changeovers, a soldier may be behind a mounted .50 caliber machine gun or
M240 machine gun at any given time. He does not need to be qualified, but he
needs to know how to operate the weapon. Units must set up concurrent
training at every range, utilizing training on every weapon. Leaders should
also familiarize their soldiers with hands-on training with foreign weapons,
including AK-47s, RPKs, RPG launchers and warheads, and PKMs. Soldiers will
deal with these weapons daily.
Soldiers need reflexive and quick fire training, using burst fire. Do not
ignore 9mm, M249 Squad Automatic Weapons, and shotguns. This training is the
most practical aspect to succeeding in this urban combat. As the soldier's
proficiency increases, leaders need to reduce target exposure on
computerized ranges. Enemy insurgents fire from rooftops and then hide,
popping up and down. Second, practice weak side shooting and tactical
magazine changes on the reflexive firing range. Third, conduct a terminal
effects demonstration on engine blocks, vehicle doors, concrete, and various
materials, using FM 3-06.11 as a guide. This training will help leaders
choose the right weapon system and facilitate decision-making in combat.
Lastly, let your soldiers move around on the range - from the zero range to
the qualification range - with loaded weapons, allowing the reinforcement of
muzzle awareness and safety.
Casualty evacuation requires training at every level. First, do not let a
casualty take your focus away from a combat engagement. You must remember
that your purpose is to fight and win. Let your First Sergeant guide and
direct CASEVAC. Leaders need to train casualty evacuation for three
purposes. First, combat medics must train under the most realistic scenarios
possible, using simulation and degrading symptoms. Many technologies exist
in this area - find them and use them. Second, integrate casualties into
everything, but with a focus on maintaining the fight against the enemy.
Third, train every soldier in making assessments in casualty priority,
placing a tourniquet, and calling in a four-line MEDEVAC.
Combat medics are a saving grace and will become your favorite and
most-valued soldier. Unfortunately, the ratio between missions and medics is
skewed, requiring training at the individual soldier level. Combat
lifesavers must be maximized by the battalion, and do not forget your
Support Platoon - who will drive more than anyone else in the battalion.
Supply your medics with four tourniquets each and each soldier with one
tourniquet. We use a mini-ratchet strap that is 1" wide and long enough to
wrap around the thigh of a soldier. It is the most rapid means to saving a
soldier from blood loss. Trust me, it saved four of my soldiers' lives, not
counting another dozen in the battalion.
Mounted react to contact drills are a necessity in urban contact. Units will
move to and from many locations for missions, finding themselves more
vulnerable on a vehicle. Leaders must focus on three areas in this training.
First, soldiers must maintain 360-degree security and alternate high-low.
Second, leaders cannot forget dismount drills upon contact. Lastly, although
never really accurate, soldiers must train on mounted firing while moving.
These three areas are key to success in a mounted react to contact. Leaders
must also consider the placement of their mounted weapons in their convoy.
Remember, the heavy weapons do no good if they are in the front of your
convoy.
Company civil-military and information operations
This topic deserves serious attention from our senior leaders. I feel we
lack the experience, training and resources at the brigade level and down.
We need to implement this facet of full spectrum operations more into our
Army education system and equip the "boots on the ground" soldiers with the
capabilities. Nevertheless, these shortcomings do not give an excuse for a
lack of company efforts in information and civil-military operations.
Creativity and initiative by company commanders make the difference.
Civil-military and information operations (CMO/IO) are not mutually
exclusive. Commanders must take personal responsibility of these efforts.
CMO/IO reinforce the success of each undertaking. The more successful CMO is
in your sector, the more positive your IO will be for you. Brigade
prioritizes CMO at the company level, meaning you are directed to focus on
certain projects for the community. These projects will vary from schools,
utilities, sanitation, and reconstruction. IO, however, provides a company
commander an opportunity to take control of his sector, earning the respect
of local officials and citizens.
Information operations are simple at the company level. IO has two purposes.
First, you must distribute information to the people. Uninformed citizens in
a country we just subjugated in war have the potential to demonstrate and
possibly riot. You must inform them of your goals and actions. Second, IO
involves not only passing out information, it requires the collection of
information. The development of an informed populace and involvement of
community leaders by a commander leads to information about hostile threats
and benevolent projects.
The first step in CMO/IO is to identify in priority areas to be funded for
CMO. Simultaneously, commanders need situational understanding of the
mindset of the sector. There are many TTPs that help in accomplishing this
assessment. First, commanders need to determine who can help them. I broke
my focal groups into business, education, political, and religious. Since we
were the first forces into Mosul, Iraq, my soldiers and I had to get out
into the streets and meet people. We developed a "list of influence" and
began developing relationships.
On 13 September 2003, one of my platoons was ambushed, wounding three of my
soldiers. The platoon was ambushed in a congested urban area with narrow
alleys. After linking up with the platoon and conducting an aerial medical
evacuation, a member of an Iraqi political party called me and said he saw
the ambush and knew the attackers. The attackers were not home, but these
men watched the houses of the attackers for 48 hours. They called me at 0200
to inform me they were home. The brigade commander gave us approval to
conduct a cordon and search. We infiltrated the neighborhood, linked up with
our "informants," and grabbed the attacker. This ambush cost the leg of one
of my soldiers and through relationships we caught the culprit.
Leaders must understand the environment prior to committing blindly to some
CMO plan. I had no true understanding of the mindset of the citizens in my
sector. In addition, there were no performance measures of effectiveness to
determine any success we were having in our efforts. Consequently, I
developed a survey of attitudes and needs in Arabic that was common across
all my sub-sectors. My soldiers hated this at first, but in the end we saw
where we needed to be and what we needed to do. This situational
understanding is vital to CMO/IO. Performance measures of effectiveness
prevent wasted efforts, allocate resources efficiently, and focus your
company on valid, verifiable priorities.
Force protection
Force protection must remain on the forefront of every leader's mind.
Protecting your soldiers requires a tough balance between the safety of your
soldiers and mission necessity. Many times in this environment leaders will
avoid missions in order to protect soldiers. This bad habit is not force
protection. We protect soldiers to maintain combat power for mission
accomplishment and to bring them home. Force protection has been alluded to
throughout this discussion, but two areas demand specific attention -
vehicle preparation and compound security.
Vehicle preparation prior to arrival in theater saves lives. As the first
combat unit to assume mission in Mosul, we had to learn the hard way.
Vehicles must be prepared in a manner that protects the soldiers from
shrapnel and rifle/machine gunfire. A tough decision must be made with
respect to sandbags in the trucks. The M998 HMMWV will experience thousands
of miles. The weight of a combat-loaded infantry squad with over 50 sandbags
will deteriorate a M998 quickly. The sandbags will save the lives of
soldiers, but they do not protect the M998.
Armor plating along the doors of the drivers and passengers and along the
benches in the back of the M998 protect soldiers. On December 26, 2003, we
were ambushed while clearing an intersection of IEDs. After one explosion
and a fusillade of fire from two enemy machine guns, we inspected the trucks
and found that the armor plating on the doors and back of the M998 had
withstood the explosion and machine gun impacts, saving the lives of over 10
soldiers. The armor plating must withstand 7.62mm at a minimum. Get it on
your trucks as soon as possible.
Security is timeless in military operations. During mounted movements in an
urban environment, vehicles must have three-dimensional security. Threats
can come from anywhere at anytime. Leaders must prepare their vehicles to
facilitate 360-degree security. We placed benches inside every HMMWV and
LMTV. I do not know if we were the first ones to do this, but we did
recognize this early on, due to AAR comments by soldiers. An RPG will hit
you so fast that if soldiers are not in the proper security position, you
may never know the origin of fire. Simple wooden benches so soldiers can sit
back-to-back improve security, increase offensive capabilities, and enable
units to gain the initiative quickly.
Static compound security remains ever-present on the battlefield. Commanders
need to balance mission requirements with protecting their company command
post or battalion TOC. Every compound will be on a road so vehicles can gain
access. Some locations permit you to shut down all civilian traffic and some
areas will not allow this isolation. The difference in successful or
"just-surviving" compound security is the active versus passive measures
taken by a unit.
Enemy forces conducted numerous drive-by shootings against a particular
unit. The enemy avenue of approach was from only two locations on the same
road. The unit could not shut down the road for an indefinite period of time
so the commander was limited in his options. He could emplace two
checkpoints at either end of the road, which would require another platoon,
or he could emplace ambushes at either end of the road during the times of
past drive-by shootings. If he chose the checkpoint course of action, he
remained passive and lost another maneuver platoon to static security,
reducing his flexibility and presence in sector. He chose the ambush option
and ended up killing enemy forces and destroying their vehicles. In the end,
the drive-by shootings decreased dramatically in this area.
Static security in an urban area requires a presence outside of the walled
compound. Commanders need to dispatch patrols during varying times, not only
to clear IEDs, but to clear unoccupied buildings, search for fighting
positions, occupy OPs, etc. Active, aggressive methods to push your security
blanket farther out than your walled compound protects your soldiers,
allowing them to rest and plan comfortably. Commanders must implement a
combination of active and passive measures to isolate their company compound
as much as possible.
__________________

"In all countries where personal freedom is valued, however much each individual may rely on legal redress, the right of each to carry arms - and these the best and the sharpest - for his own protection in case of extremity, is a right of nature indelible and irrepressible, and the more it is sought to be repressed the more it will recur."


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Old 08-17-2005, 10:31 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Pt.3.

Conclusion
American soldiers are facing men with a cell phone is one hand, a RPG in the
other, and ill-conceived hatred in their heart. This enemy is asymmetric in
the most unpredictable way. US forces will face this threat for months in
Iraq, if not years. Technology only enhances the soldiers' capabilities to
kill the enemy and win their hearts and minds simultaneously. In the end, US
soldiers must meet the enemy - specifically terrorists - face-to-face,
hand-to-hand and kill them. Company commanders must bring to bear
creativity, aggressiveness, and an offensive spirit to take away the enemy's
will. In the end, gather information on enemy targets and then narrowly
target them with overwhelming combat power.
Throughout this conflict, I discovered that most things taught in Army
schools remain valid and worth remembering during my decision-making
process. The most important factors that were reinforced to me that applies
to everything discussed here is the necessity to conduct combat AARs after
every patrol, whether there was contact or not. Second, Troop Leading
Procedures are vital, especially conducting a reconnaissance, rehearsals and
building a terrain model, and supervising platoon and leader operation
orders and rehearsals. Third, and most important, maintain an offensive
spirit always. Look for the enemy to shoot at you, shoot back and kill or
capture them. Bold leaders are dangerous and that is what you want in them
as they fight this fight.




James Yeager - President
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Phone 731-676-2041
__________________

"In all countries where personal freedom is valued, however much each individual may rely on legal redress, the right of each to carry arms - and these the best and the sharpest - for his own protection in case of extremity, is a right of nature indelible and irrepressible, and the more it is sought to be repressed the more it will recur."


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Old 08-17-2005, 11:21 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Brewer
Where'd you find that, Tant? I'd like to see the source, as I think it might be an easier read. If you don't want to link it, send me a PM. Thanks!
Mike

I was on a mailing list for a while... The new site won't link to the articles anymore. Sorry...
__________________

"In all countries where personal freedom is valued, however much each individual may rely on legal redress, the right of each to carry arms - and these the best and the sharpest - for his own protection in case of extremity, is a right of nature indelible and irrepressible, and the more it is sought to be repressed the more it will recur."


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Old 08-17-2005, 11:36 PM   #5 (permalink)
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figured you already had this so i didnt post it...
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Old 08-18-2005, 11:27 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Brewer
Thank you sir. You are a gentleman and a scholar.
What thats the last time i try and help you out...
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Old 08-19-2005, 11:11 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Brewer
Fine, fine. You're a scoundrel and a menace. You scallywag!
Why thank you, glad to be of assistance ...you were starting to sound like my dear old mom
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