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Tactical Military and Law-Enforcement Training Please do not post operational details of current or past missions that could compromise the people on the ground right now. This is not a forum for the discussion of current doctrine, but for the exchange of training ideas that will give US soldier


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Old 09-07-2005, 09:06 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Accuracy in combat

Just wondering what you consider acceptable accuracy in a tactical situation. this can be a large question cause it covers so many variables

scoped/unscoped (hi/low power optics)

off hand/rested/prone

stationary/moving target

weapons action type (bolt/semiauto)

do you feel that with todays automatic high capacity weapons the emphasis on accuracy has shifted toward a "lethal density" concept?
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Old 09-08-2005, 11:02 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Brewer
Optics:
.....Is substandard marksmanship okay when you're hunting? That's just an animal. Substandard marksmanship in battle means your life. I'm a major proponent of training marksmanship fundamentals all the time. You can't be "too accurate" when it comes to firearms. Like Wyatt Earp said: "Speed is fine. Accuracy is final."

An observation by the "Father" of modern pistolcraft Col. Jeff Cooper USMC (Ret.)


Over the years I have developed the notion that there is a definite connection between marksmanship and morality. A good shot is nearly always a good man, and conversely the bad guys usually cannot shoot for sour owl jowls. This proposition cannot be proven, of course, but I think it has to do with the fact that the essence of good marksmanship is self-control, and it seems pretty clear that self-control is the foundation of good morals. Hurray for our side!
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Old 09-08-2005, 11:18 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I am in agreement with you there Mr. Mike, I believe that accuracy has taken a backseat in modern times. as a boy, I was taught to hunt using only single shot weapons (.22rimfire and 20 gauge) on small game. I believe that this engenders a discipline as far as shot placement. when you look at US military history from Sgt. York to Carlos Hatchcock the men with a rural hunting background seem to make the best use of their weapons as a soldier in the field.

Man Tanto I used to go through every back Issue of "Guns and Ammo" just to read Jeff Coopers article on the backpage. He is the "Guru" of accuracy I have read that in his school they do things like hit a skeet with your rifle, Now thats some skills!
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Old 09-08-2005, 11:28 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GonzoStyles
....
Man Tanto I used to go through every back Issue of "Guns and Ammo" just to read Jeff Coopers article on the backpage. He is the "Guru" of accuracy I have read that in his school they do things like hit a skeet with your rifle, Now thats some skills!

::::Smile:::: You might like this Gonzo; http://www.dvc.org.uk/~johnny/jeff/


Mr. Cooper's latest "project" involves 20 shots in 20 seconds, inside 20 inches @ 1000 yards.

Sounds like a challenge for even the very elite shooters in the world. I doubt there are five men on the whole planet that could pull it off on even a good day.

Shooting small moving targets out of the air is old school even for Mr. Cooper.
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Old 09-08-2005, 11:40 AM   #5 (permalink)
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From Jeff Cooper's Commentaries Vol. 13 #8...

"The Federal Bureau of Investigation has concluded somewhat officially that it is not cartridge power but rather bullet placement which stops fights."


I would never disrespect Mr. Cooper by publishing his words without his written consent, his COMMENTARIES are protected by copyright and are FOR PERSONAL USE ONLY.

I thought this was particularly interesting and applicable to the topic in a humorous sort of way....
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Old 09-09-2005, 08:27 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Brewer
I don't want to get anyone's hopes up, but I just wrote an e-mail to Col. Cooper and invited him to post his own words on the forum here. .....
... I know I'd benefit, as would the troops I train.

More to Come,
Mike

Excellent! I so enjoy reading his commentaries! I've written thanks to his E page keeper(s) and shared a few of his stories with folks. The man has like three PHD's! And quite a way with the words.
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