Yes or No

PFC_Kurtz_John · 12-07-2005, 05:06 PM

Simple are you for the war in Iraq?

Think about this befor you say yes or no.

Tell me how stoping a man killing his people with Bio and chemical weapons is wrong. Do you even know what weapons like this do? They attack your body somethimes causing all your muscles in your body to contract as hard as they can. You will throw up and all your blood vessles will burst. Then after about 30 min of pure pain your muscles will contract so much you will break your own back. Not to mention the Bio weapons will eat away at your skin. Mothers will give birth to deformed babies. People will endure what to them is a life of hell.

cam427 · 12-08-2005, 11:23 AM

This question and any answer given implies certain beliefs so I want to make my position clear.

Do I support the removal of Saddam Hussain - Yes

Do I believe that the average US soldier believes he is there for the right reasons - Yes. Many soldiers believe that they are there to "save" the Iraqi people. That said, many of them believe that they are saving the US from terrorist attacks which I believe to be completely false but they believe it so their motives are good.

Do I think the US government is there for the right reasons - NO. The US government do not care at all for the Iraqi people (or even the american people). All they are there for is the oil which has always been a major part of the Bush Family Plans.

For my overall vote I am going to say I am for the war (I will say it very quietly) because I was for the war before it started and while I am no longer sure it was a good decision I do not have a good exit strategy and feel it would be wrong for me to change my mind just because it is going badly. For clarification on this point I was always aware that the US Government was there for the wrong reasons but I figured that if it meant the removal of Saddam and a better quality of life for most Iraqi people then a good thing being done for the wrong reasons was still a good thing.

Just for your interest over here in Europe almost everyone is against the war. I work in an office of 500 people and I am the ONLY person in the office that I know of who supports the war.

Cam

Tom Yum · 12-08-2005, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cam427

Just for your interest over here in Europe almost everyone is against the war. I work in an office of 500 people and I am the ONLY person in the office that I know of who supports the war.

Cam

Its not strictly about oil. It goes beyond that. Hussein was a ruthless and inhumane leader. On top of that we've taken the fight to the terrorists.

Alot of us would like peace in the mideast, but its beyond friendly negotation and debate like our neighbors in the EU would like to believe.

Not to mention that many cities in your collective union are breeding grounds for terrorists who also strike in your own lands (i.e. the Spain bombing, shooting/stabbing death of T.VanGough).

Yet you do nothing about it.

Here in the states, if a religious group gets out of hand and approaches terrorist-like behavior, we stop it, even if its of our own religion. Take for example, the Branch Dividian incident in the 90's.

BoarSpear · 12-08-2005, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Yum

Here in the states, if a religious group gets out of hand and approaches terrorist-like behavior, we stop it, even if its of our own religion. For example, the Branch Dividian incident in the 90's.

....SHIT!! every day i wake up and resolve not to argue with anyone on this forum...every day i read something I have to reply to.

the Branch Dividians did what?...Exactly what was their crime? what was the reason armor and military tactics were used to kill all those people?

that was ABUSE....OF....POWER.....Murder isnt a bad word for it...its right up there with FBI snipers shooting Randy Weaver's son and dog and best his friend...then his wife while she held his baby...HMMM yeah that was called for...

Tom Yum · 12-08-2005, 04:01 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Branch_Davidian#Shootings

The group was classified as cult-like. They began to accquire massive amounts of weapons (automatic weapons + IEDs), presumably to attack the government and "kill for God."

I didn't intend to stray from the thread topic. The point is that each country's government has a responsibility to protect its citizens from groups that can potentially harm large numbers of civillians. Is the government perfect? No. But hey, atleast they grant us the right to carry arms to protect ourselves.

BoarSpear · 12-08-2005, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Yum

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Branch_Davidian#Shootings

The group was classified as cult-like. They began to accquire massive amounts of weapons (automatic weapons + IEDs), presumably to attack the government and "kill for God."

I didn't intend to stray from the thread topic. The point is that each country's government has a responsibility to protect its citizens from groups that can potentially harm large numbers of civillians. Is the government perfect? No. But hey, atleast they grant us the right to carry arms to protect ourselves.

Make up yer mind, can we have guns or not

good luck against the tanks

BoarSpear · 12-08-2005, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Brewer

Boar, this one's for you. You mentioned the UN in another thread and asked if the "good guys" ignored them and went it alone? Here's another example of UN agendas and why they didn't back us in Iraq...

Before I launch into this little article, let me say that it relates to the topic at hand in that it shows where some of our so-called allies stand, and why support for US and coalition actions in Iraq may be a little less than uplifting.

UN CEREMONY INCLUDES MAP OF "PALESTINE" IN
PLACE OF ISRAEL
By Ezra HaLevi

The United Nations held a "Day of Solidarity with the
Palestinian
People last week. A large map of “Palestine,” with Israel
literally
wiped off the map, featured prominently in the festivities.

Email
subscribers, click here to view the article with pictures

The ceremony was held at the UN headquarters in New York and
was
attended by Secretary General Kofi Annan and the Presidents of
the UN
Security Council and the General Assembly.

During the festivities, a map labeled a "map of Palestine"
was
displayed prominently between UN and PLO flags. The map, with
“Palestine” written in Arabic atop it, does not include Israel, a
member of the UN for 56 years. The map does not even
demarcate the
partition lines of November 29, 1947, marking a Jewish state
alongside
an Arab state. The partition was dictated by the UN General
Assembly
itself.

With the map hanging behind him, Secretary-General Annan
addressed the
public meeting at UN Headquarters.

Click here to
view a video clip of the ceremony with the map in the background.

At the start of the ceremony, the dignitaries present asked
attendees
to observe a moment of silence. “I invite everyone present to rise
and
observe a minute of silence in memory of all those who have given
their lives for the cause of the Palestinian people,” the master of
ceremonies said, “and the return of peace between Israel and
Palestine.“

Anne Bayefsky, who reported on the event for the Eye on the UN
organization, said that the ceremony's wording was aimed at
giving
honor to the worst of Palestinian terrorists. "It was a moment
...
crafted to include the commemoration of suicide-bombers,” she
wrote.

Click here to
view a video of the moment of silence.

In response to the event, Bayefsky and her organization have once
again asked the U.S. to withhold funding from the UN.

(Photos and Videos: EyeOnTheUN.org)

Something to thinka bout when considering whether the UN is truly a group of allies or not...

so can we expect a large influx into New orleans?

Actually dude i HATE THE UN...they can take their twisted gun statue from in front of their HQs and shove it right up Kofi's ass

We ought to kick them directly out the door and across the border....We have the 2nd amendment....it completely contradicts their goal....Why are we a member and why is that shit allowed here? HMMMMMM lets get real

Tom Yum · 12-08-2005, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoarSpear

Make up yer mind, can we have guns or not

We can have guns. I think most people carry for self-defense and hope to be able to stop one or multiple attackers possibly armed.

The chances of having to defend against a tank are like that of having to defend against Chuck Lidell, Randy Couture and Mike Tyson in a 3 vs 1 street fight

BoarSpear · 12-08-2005, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Yum

We can have guns. I think most people carry for self-defense.

The chances of having to defend against a tank are like that of having to defend against Chuck Lidell, Randy Couture and Mike Tyson in a 3 vs 1 street fight

unless you happen to cross the FBI...or the BATF...or the US military...

mind you when the shooting started, no charges had been filed...the FBI presumed guilt...hmmmm where else have we presumed someone MIGHT do something bad, so we did something bad first?...

HMMM seems like the American Indians had to deal with the Airforce as well as tanks...but that doesnt happen in america

cam427 · 12-09-2005, 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Yum

Its not strictly about oil. It goes beyond that. Hussein was a ruthless and inhumane leader. On top of that we've taken the fight to the terrorists.

Alot of us would like peace in the mideast, but its beyond friendly negotation and debate like our neighbors in the EU would like to believe.

Not to mention that many cities in your collective union are breeding grounds for terrorists who also strike in your own lands (i.e. the Spain bombing, shooting/stabbing death of T.VanGough).

Yet you do nothing about it.

Here in the states, if a religious group gets out of hand and approaches terrorist-like behavior, we stop it, even if its of our own religion. Take for example, the Branch Dividian incident in the 90's.

Sorry dude but it was nothing to do with him being a ruthless leader or the US would have done something about all of the other countries with bad leaders (there are many).

It is interesting that you talk of cities in the EU being breeding grounds for terrorists but the largest terrorist organisation in europe by far (the IRA) was funded by donations from US citizens until 9/11 when they suddenly realized what it was like to live in a place under the threat of terror. I live in Northern Ireland right now and can tell you that this is true.

Your comment about taking it to the terrorists is completely false. Iraq were no threat to the US before the invasion. I know you believe what you are saying so I am not calling you a liar but you need to look further into what is happenning rather than believing what you are being told.

Cam

jubaji · 12-09-2005, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sham427

The US government do not care at all for the Iraqi people (or even the american people). All they are there for is the oil which has always been a major part of the Bush Family Plans.

Of course you have no proof for any of that hysterical bullshit. Its just the popular emotion to display these days, isn't it?

There are people for whom opposition to the war is nothing more than one more manifestation for their own personal hate and political bias.

Thank goodness in your case you are a foreigner, and utterly irrelevant.

jubaji · 12-09-2005, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cam427

Your comment about taking it to the terrorists is completely false. Iraq were (sic) no threat to the US before the invasion.

According to you?! Well, that's relevant.

cam427 · 12-09-2005, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jubaji

Of course you have no proof for any of that hysterical bullshit. Its just the popular emotion to display these days, isn't it?

There are people for whom opposition to the war is nothing more than one more manifestation for their own personal hate and political bias.

Thank goodness in your case you are a foreigner, and utterly irrelevant.

I do actually have proof. If the US cared about the people of Iraq then why did they impose the sanctions that caused the deaths of millions of them (many of whom were children).

If they care about people being oppressed then why are they not in Somalia, Zimbabwe, or any of the otehr countries where people are routinely murdered by the government forces.

The fact that you think all non US citzens are irrelivant just shows what a stupid redneck you are. Fortunately there are some sensible guys on this site to prove that no all americans are like you. Guys like you are the reason everyone hates americans. If several billion people disagree with US foreign policy it becomes very important.

Perhaps you can explain how Iraq were a threat to the US before the invasion since you so obviously disagree. They were a poor crippled country who did not own a missile with anywhere near the capability of reaching the US. Their airforce was destroyed. Surely since Osama Bin Laden came from Saudi Arabia you should have attacked them. Perhaps you will use the "we were defending other countries" lie but if that were the case then why do you only choose to protect some countries and not others? This leads back to the first point doesn't it?

Come on, how about you try and actually answer some questions instead of just insulting everyone.

jubaji · 12-09-2005, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cam427

I do actually have proof.

You have "proof" about 'caring'? You have "proof" about thoughts and emotions? Look, I already know you are stupid, don't belabor the point.

jubaji · 12-09-2005, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cam427

If they care about people being oppressed then why are they not in Somalia, Zimbabwe, or any of the otehr countries where people are routinely murdered by the government forces..

Sounds like you have a 'policy' question, not an 'emotion' question. Is that right?

And if you can't answer this policy question on your own, then you are willfully stupid.

View Poll Results: For the war ?
Yes	17	58.62%
No	12	41.38%
Voters: 29. You may not vote on this poll

12-07-2005, 05:06 PM	#1 (permalink)
PFC_Kurtz_John Registered User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Edinburg VA USA Posts: 74 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Yes or No Simple are you for the war in Iraq? Think about this befor you say yes or no. Tell me how stoping a man killing his people with Bio and chemical weapons is wrong. Do you even know what weapons like this do? They attack your body somethimes causing all your muscles in your body to contract as hard as they can. You will throw up and all your blood vessles will burst. Then after about 30 min of pure pain your muscles will contract so much you will break your own back. Not to mention the Bio weapons will eat away at your skin. Mothers will give birth to deformed babies. People will endure what to them is a life of hell. __________________ George S. Patton "No good decision was ever made in a swivel chair" "There is a time to take counsel of your fears, and there is a time to never listen to any fear." Dwight D. Eisenhower "A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both."

12-08-2005, 11:23 AM	#2 (permalink)
cam427 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Ireland Posts: 255 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Simple... I dont think so. This question and any answer given implies certain beliefs so I want to make my position clear. Do I support the removal of Saddam Hussain - Yes Do I believe that the average US soldier believes he is there for the right reasons - Yes. Many soldiers believe that they are there to "save" the Iraqi people. That said, many of them believe that they are saving the US from terrorist attacks which I believe to be completely false but they believe it so their motives are good. Do I think the US government is there for the right reasons - NO. The US government do not care at all for the Iraqi people (or even the american people). All they are there for is the oil which has always been a major part of the Bush Family Plans. For my overall vote I am going to say I am for the war (I will say it very quietly) because I was for the war before it started and while I am no longer sure it was a good decision I do not have a good exit strategy and feel it would be wrong for me to change my mind just because it is going badly. For clarification on this point I was always aware that the US Government was there for the wrong reasons but I figured that if it meant the removal of Saddam and a better quality of life for most Iraqi people then a good thing being done for the wrong reasons was still a good thing. Just for your interest over here in Europe almost everyone is against the war. I work in an office of 500 people and I am the ONLY person in the office that I know of who supports the war. Cam

12-08-2005, 04:01 PM	#5 (permalink)
Tom Yum Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Here and there. Posts: 11,307 Groans: 1 Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Branch_Davidian#Shootings The group was classified as cult-like. They began to accquire massive amounts of weapons (automatic weapons + IEDs), presumably to attack the government and "kill for God." I didn't intend to stray from the thread topic. The point is that each country's government has a responsibility to protect its citizens from groups that can potentially harm large numbers of civillians. Is the government perfect? No. But hey, atleast they grant us the right to carry arms to protect ourselves. __________________ Love it, leave it or fix it.

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