? for Mr.Mike, R.O.K. hand to hand

GonzoStyles · 07-15-2006, 03:48 PM

Mr. Mike what is your opinion on ROK hand to hand if you have any knowledge of it. I have always heard the ROK forces spoke of with admiration by our service members who have had the honor of serving alongside them. Thank you for your time.

ROK=republic of Korea

GonzoStyles · 07-15-2006, 06:24 PM

Thans for the reply Mr.Brewer, its just whenever people bash TKD I tell them that the ROK has an awesome reputation as soldiers so I tell them I would be careful who I talk trash about TKD in front of.

GonzoStyles · 07-15-2006, 07:34 PM

Roger that!!!

bigred389 · 07-15-2006, 10:36 PM

That said, the TKD they use is not the TKD that most people think of when they think TKD.

http://www.mca-marines.org/Gazette/2005/05durand.html
Here's a link to an article relating the current MCMAP to the TKD of ROK units fighting in Vietnam.

"When the action stopped shortly after dawn, 104 enemy bodies lay within the wire, many of them eviscerated or brained."

As you can see...they were using entrenching tools, bayonets, and rifle butts to kill the Vietnamese as well.

jubaji · 07-15-2006, 11:40 PM

Like anything else, generalizations about the Korean military are a bad idea. All South Korean men are required to serve in the military so, as with any large population sample, most will not be great hand to hand fighters.

I know dozens and dozens of people who have served in the South Korean military and I have to say that the majority of them have not spoken highly of TKD nor consider themselves great hand to hand fighters. Are there great fighters in the Korean military? It would seem unreasonable to suggest otherwise, but no group ought be idealized, no matter what agenda it serves.

Guro Dave Gould · 07-16-2006, 04:15 AM

Hi guys,

I thought that I would make a comment on the R.O.K. H2H thread. I was one of the first outside (Non Asian) Instructors to be flown in to train them in Martial Arts other than their own Korean Disciplines. I was flown in to train them in aspects of Lameco Eskrima in 1999 and 2000.

I was flown in to train the R.O.K. Special Operation Forces at their Compound at Songnam, South Korea by SFC Kevin Underwood and SFC Jeff Guthrie both LNO`s for our forward deployment the 1st U.S. Army Special Forces Det. in Korea. It took some persuasion to get them to participate initially as Koreans are very proud people and some what skeptical at times. Although I wont reply in specifics I will say that I was very impressed with their work ethic noting that every team member which I trained took the training very seriously and each soldier always gave me 100 percent of their attention and potential in training at all times. Each time I left Korea with a deeper respect for the Korean Spec. Ops. Community as a whole concerning empty hand combatives.

In those two years I worked with components of all of their Special Operations Brigades to include their CT team (707) for a week of training at a time. After 2000 I never returned to Songnam but Since than very capable Filipino Masters such as Christopher Ricketts and Ray Floro have been flown into the Songnam compound to continue their training.

Before I and others were flown in to train them their Combative Martial Arts Program was mostly made up of Korean Martial Arts leaning heavily on Hapkido, Tang soo do, Kum do and Tae Kwon do. Now they integrate all effective martial art disciplines to include grappling, ground fighting, Filipino Martial Arts and really anything of value. I hope that this helps, ciao.

Guro Dave Gould.

treelizard · 07-16-2006, 04:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Brewer

True. But like we've explored before, any technique and any system is secondary to the man using it (or woman, TL...) and the method by which it's trained.

Heh, that must mean Mike knows about my closet TKD expertise.

just kidding

GonzoStyles · 07-16-2006, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jubaji

Like anything else, generalizations about the Korean military are a bad idea. All South Korean men are required to serve in the military so, as with any large population sample, most will not be great hand to hand fighters.

I know dozens and dozens of people who have served in the South Korean military and I have to say that the majority of them have not spoken highly of TKD nor consider themselves great hand to hand fighters. Are there great fighters in the Korean military? It would seem unreasonable to suggest otherwise, but no group ought be idealized, no matter what agenda it serves.

Does it have to serve any "Agenda" cant we just use it as an example to show that all combat systems have there merits and effective practitioners?

georgie · 11-26-2006, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jubaji

Like anything else, generalizations about the Korean military are a bad idea. All South Korean men are required to serve in the military so, as with any large population sample, most will not be great hand to hand fighters.

I know dozens and dozens of people who have served in the South Korean military and I have to say that the majority of them have not spoken highly of TKD nor consider themselves great hand to hand fighters

dozens and dozens eh?......id have to say your stretching the truth AGAIN jubaji.......the truth is they are probably the toughest marines in the world because they spend more time learning hand to hand than other military units......its their bread and butter training and always has been ...heres a link .....http://experts.about.com/e/r/re/repu...rine_corps.htm...

they are trained in TKD and Hapkido with more emphasis on killing and maiming techniques than your avg mcdojo TKD........dozens and dozens eh?

Tom Yum · 11-26-2006, 07:38 PM

The ROK special forces originally trained in TKD and Kum do from the 50's to the 70's. Thereafter, they integrated several Korean and Chinese styles into their system - called Tukong Musool, which integrated more close quarter sweeps, chokes, vital strikes and improvised weapons.

jubaji · 11-26-2006, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by georgie

dozens and dozens eh?......id have to say your stretching the truth AGAIN jubaji...............dozens and dozens eh?

Exactly what problem do you have? Dozens and dozens is, if anything, an understatement.

jubaji · 11-26-2006, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by georgie

they are trained in TKD and Hapkido with more emphasis on killing and maiming techniques

...........................

07-15-2006, 03:48 PM	#1 (permalink)
GonzoStyles Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 606 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	? for Mr.Mike, R.O.K. hand to hand Mr. Mike what is your opinion on ROK hand to hand if you have any knowledge of it. I have always heard the ROK forces spoke of with admiration by our service members who have had the honor of serving alongside them. Thank you for your time. ROK=republic of Korea

07-15-2006, 11:40 PM	#5 (permalink)
jubaji Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: koko Posts: 8,794 Groans: 0 Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post	Like anything else, generalizations about the Korean military are a bad idea. All South Korean men are required to serve in the military so, as with any large population sample, most will not be great hand to hand fighters. I know dozens and dozens of people who have served in the South Korean military and I have to say that the majority of them have not spoken highly of TKD nor consider themselves great hand to hand fighters. Are there great fighters in the Korean military? It would seem unreasonable to suggest otherwise, but no group ought be idealized, no matter what agenda it serves. __________________ Optional signature you may use to appear at bottom of your posts.

11-26-2006, 07:38 PM	#10 (permalink)
Tom Yum Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Here and there. Posts: 11,307 Groans: 1 Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts	Going on what's available online The ROK special forces originally trained in TKD and Kum do from the 50's to the 70's. Thereafter, they integrated several Korean and Chinese styles into their system - called Tukong Musool, which integrated more close quarter sweeps, chokes, vital strikes and improvised weapons. __________________ Love it, leave it or fix it.

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07-15-2006, 06:24 PM	#2 (permalink)
GonzoStyles Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 606 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thans for the reply Mr.Brewer, its just whenever people bash TKD I tell them that the ROK has an awesome reputation as soldiers so I tell them I would be careful who I talk trash about TKD in front of.

07-15-2006, 07:34 PM	#3 (permalink)
GonzoStyles Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 606 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Roger that!!!

07-15-2006, 10:36 PM	#4 (permalink)
bigred389 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 569 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	That said, the TKD they use is not the TKD that most people think of when they think TKD. http://www.mca-marines.org/Gazette/2005/05durand.html Here's a link to an article relating the current MCMAP to the TKD of ROK units fighting in Vietnam. "When the action stopped shortly after dawn, 104 enemy bodies lay within the wire, many of them eviscerated or brained." As you can see...they were using entrenching tools, bayonets, and rifle butts to kill the Vietnamese as well.

07-16-2006, 04:15 AM	#6 (permalink)
Guro Dave Gould Registered User Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Los Angeles, CA. U.S.A. Posts: 91 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi guys, I thought that I would make a comment on the R.O.K. H2H thread. I was one of the first outside (Non Asian) Instructors to be flown in to train them in Martial Arts other than their own Korean Disciplines. I was flown in to train them in aspects of Lameco Eskrima in 1999 and 2000. I was flown in to train the R.O.K. Special Operation Forces at their Compound at Songnam, South Korea by SFC Kevin Underwood and SFC Jeff Guthrie both LNO`s for our forward deployment the 1st U.S. Army Special Forces Det. in Korea. It took some persuasion to get them to participate initially as Koreans are very proud people and some what skeptical at times. Although I wont reply in specifics I will say that I was very impressed with their work ethic noting that every team member which I trained took the training very seriously and each soldier always gave me 100 percent of their attention and potential in training at all times. Each time I left Korea with a deeper respect for the Korean Spec. Ops. Community as a whole concerning empty hand combatives. In those two years I worked with components of all of their Special Operations Brigades to include their CT team (707) for a week of training at a time. After 2000 I never returned to Songnam but Since than very capable Filipino Masters such as Christopher Ricketts and Ray Floro have been flown into the Songnam compound to continue their training. Before I and others were flown in to train them their Combative Martial Arts Program was mostly made up of Korean Martial Arts leaning heavily on Hapkido, Tang soo do, Kum do and Tae Kwon do. Now they integrate all effective martial art disciplines to include grappling, ground fighting, Filipino Martial Arts and really anything of value. I hope that this helps, ciao. Guro Dave Gould.

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