Sunni & Baathists unite against Al-Qaeda

Tom Yum · 03-31-2007, 03:13 AM

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=131_1175296092

Evidence that American forces have been successfull at recruiting locals to fight against foreign insurgents. Here's what I got from the media clip:

1. We have supplied locals with light arms.

2. We have also promised locals free reign to move about their territory with little American interference.

3. Locals claim that foreign insurgents (Al-Qaeda) have repeatedly turned against the locals, torturing or killing them for speaking out.

4. Locals have participated in further joint-operations w/ Marines and Soldiers against foreign insurgents.

DickHardman · 03-31-2007, 03:27 AM

lol i posted the same thing in open access.

Tom Yum · 04-01-2007, 12:39 AM

While not explicitly stated, great job on the Army SF......I guess

DickHardman · 04-01-2007, 08:32 AM

nobody knows what the future will bring, alliances in iraq shift nearly weekly to be honest. however, this may be the window of oppertunity that we have needed. in the video, a commander states that these tribal alliances have been pretty effective at hunting down insurgents.

however, its also true that these same people may turn against us very soon. iraq is still very shaky, and it seems as if alliances between factions change almost monthly.

man i really hope they can get iraq under control soon.

what do you guys think of the democrats voting for a pullout? i may think this war was wrong to begin with, but now that we are there i dont think we should bail. announcing a pullout or a timetable is a terrible idea.

Tom Yum · 04-01-2007, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DickHardman

what do you guys think of the democrats voting for a pullout? i may think this war was wrong to begin with, but now that we are there i dont think we should bail. Announcing a pullout or a timetable is a terrible idea.

I completely agree.

We've got to finish the job we started.

I've read that it takes a generation of occupation to change a nation, whether that change means fostering strong, modern leaders or removing destructive insurgents.

We rebuilt Japan into what it is today in 12 years: a very stable nation and the world's second largest economy.

Let's hope we can repeat that in Iraq.

Its going to be a challenge since this is a dynamic war over ideology, rather than conflicting but tangible government.

**Hardball** · 04-02-2007, 12:29 PM

Ladies and Gentlemen; It's the bodybags. How many letters from Grieving moms do you think you could take if you were a politician. Have you ever seen a Mom at her son or daughters funeral? It's a sad thing for a child to predecease a parent. The causualties. The casualties are horrible. I don't know the number but it is very high. By casualties I mean non fatal injuries. Loss eyes, limbs, double loss of limbs etc etc etc

The only solution other than a peel back is to bring back the draft. My God, I really hope that doesn't happen; I wanna see my boys finish college and at least have a chance at being a Military Officer and not a PFC like me.

DickHardman · 04-03-2007, 03:40 PM

the number of casualties in the iraq war may be relatively low, but they are supposed to be relatively low. this is not a conventional battle, guerilla warefare is more about inflicting small but steady casualties to drain morale and recources and disrupt economic efforts. is it true that our country is in debt because of this war? im not sure if it is or isnt at this point, but i do know that BILLIONS of american dollars have been wasted. the iraqi insurgency has done a good job at disrupting the reconstruction effort in iraq.

vietnam was way different in that it had many conventional battles with large forces fighting eachother face to face.

**Hardball** · 04-03-2007, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Brewer

The draft would result in a huge increase in those body bags, Hardball. Fact is, we have more than enough volunteers to do the job, especially if we returned to a philosophy of seeing war as a punitive measure. MILLIONS of body bags were not enough to break our resolve in past wars, so I don't buy that a few thousand have done it this time around. I think it is plain and simple politics. Political power is built on the ability to capitalize on divisions within a populace, not similarities. The biggest point of contention right now is this war, and it is being leveraged against Americans for political gain. That sucks, and it's wrong. It is simply not the job of Congress to run wars, and the fact that they are trying to do that now is reprehensible. It's fine for them to debate, but this has gone far past debate and discussion. It has entered the realm of state representatives trying to make national policy for the President.

Seriously, fewer people have died in the entire course of this war than have died here in the States in an average week from stuff like car wrecks. Fewer people have been injured in this war than are injured here at home in an average DAY!! Deaths and injuries are not the reason people do not support the war. Presentation of them is the reason. Put into perspective, the numbers are only spectacular because they are so low! But we're not dealing in facts, are we. We're dealing in feelings. And if we can rally people behind the cries of American blood being needlessly spilled abroad, maybe we can take attention off the exponentially greater volume of blood being needlessly spilled here. It's a sales pitch. Nothing more.

I have to give it to you; you carefully thought out your response. I find it hard to believe what your feelings are about Congress. I just feel the Government is functioning properly with the Checks and Balances system. The sad part is, Congress is not going to have enough votes to override a promised veto.

**Hardball** · 04-03-2007, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DickHardman

the number of casualties in the iraq war may be relatively low, but they are supposed to be relatively low.

Casualties include Non Fatal wounds also. Is that what you are referring to?

DickHardman · 04-03-2007, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hardball

Casualties include Non Fatal wounds also. Is that what you are referring to?

i was talking about deaths. the numbers of wounded are always much higher, however i dont know how they compare to the number of those wounded in other wars.

**Hardball** · 04-03-2007, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DickHardman

i was talking about deaths. the numbers of wounded are always much higher, however i dont know how they compare to the number of those wounded in other wars.

It's a common error. Casualties include non fatal and last I read it was somewhere between 16,000 and 20,000.

DickHardman · 04-03-2007, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hardball

It's a common error. Casualties include non fatal and last I read it was somewhere between 16,000 and 20,000.

accoriding to http://icasualties.org/oif/ the number of living wounded is 24,314.

26,188 were medically transported.

although those are pretty large numbers, they i dont think they even come close to vietnams wounded.

this war is just so intense because the media has absolutely raped it in every single way possible. both sides have used such incredible propaganda during this war. as they have said, this war has been the most filmed war ever. you can go on youtube and see frontline footage of people getting blown to bits on both sides. any child can type in iraq war in youtube or the internet and find the most grisly, hardcore footage war footage set to jayz or metallica.

**Hardball** · 04-04-2007, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DickHardman

accoriding to http://icasualties.org/oif/ the number of living wounded is 24,314.
26,188 were medically transported.

Those include very serious wounds such as double amputations, loss of vision, .............those troops are going to need intense rehab just to be able to earn a paycheck.

**Hardball** · 04-04-2007, 02:40 PM

I'm not here to agrue Politics. Frankly I am not good at it. However, I do think it's unfair for the all volunteer force to keep getting extensions on their tour of duties and to keep going back over and over again.. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the average Mandatory stay in Vietnam was 22 months.

Also, why all this comparison to Vietnam? Lord Knows do we need 50k casualties before the light bulb comes on.?

**Hardball** · 04-05-2007, 06:41 AM

O.K. you presented you view point very well. I am sorry to see that no other fourm members have joined in the discussion.

03-31-2007, 03:13 AM	#1 (permalink)
Tom Yum Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Here and there. Posts: 11,307 Groans: 1 Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts	Sunni & Baathists unite against Al-Qaeda http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=131_1175296092 Evidence that American forces have been successfull at recruiting locals to fight against foreign insurgents. Here's what I got from the media clip: 1. We have supplied locals with light arms. 2. We have also promised locals free reign to move about their territory with little American interference. 3. Locals claim that foreign insurgents (Al-Qaeda) have repeatedly turned against the locals, torturing or killing them for speaking out. 4. Locals have participated in further joint-operations w/ Marines and Soldiers against foreign insurgents. __________________ Love it, leave it or fix it. Last edited by Tom Yum; 03-31-2007 at 03:22 AM.

04-01-2007, 12:39 AM	#3 (permalink)
Tom Yum Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Here and there. Posts: 11,307 Groans: 1 Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts	While not explicitly stated, great job on the Army SF......I guess __________________ Love it, leave it or fix it. Last edited by Tom Yum; 04-01-2007 at 12:43 AM.

04-02-2007, 12:29 PM	#6 (permalink)
Hardball Premiere Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,404 Groans: 0 Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post	Ladies and Gentlemen; It's the bodybags. How many letters from Grieving moms do you think you could take if you were a politician. Have you ever seen a Mom at her son or daughters funeral? It's a sad thing for a child to predecease a parent. The causualties. The casualties are horrible. I don't know the number but it is very high. By casualties I mean non fatal injuries. Loss eyes, limbs, double loss of limbs etc etc etc The only solution other than a peel back is to bring back the draft. My God, I really hope that doesn't happen; I wanna see my boys finish college and at least have a chance at being a Military Officer and not a PFC like me. __________________ The Way of the Warrior is Practice. Daily practice, accumulate practice minute by minute, hour by hour and day by day. {Book of 5 Rings} Mike Brewers 2008 Sit up challenge 50,000/100,000 running balance.(Crunches) Kicks 6,300/100,000

04-04-2007, 02:40 PM	#14 (permalink)
Hardball Premiere Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,404 Groans: 0 Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post	I'm not here to agrue Politics. Frankly I am not good at it. However, I do think it's unfair for the all volunteer force to keep getting extensions on their tour of duties and to keep going back over and over again.. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the average Mandatory stay in Vietnam was 22 months. Also, why all this comparison to Vietnam? Lord Knows do we need 50k casualties before the light bulb comes on.? __________________ The Way of the Warrior is Practice. Daily practice, accumulate practice minute by minute, hour by hour and day by day. {Book of 5 Rings} Mike Brewers 2008 Sit up challenge 50,000/100,000 running balance.(Crunches) Kicks 6,300/100,000

04-05-2007, 06:41 AM	#15 (permalink)
Hardball Premiere Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,404 Groans: 0 Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post	O.K. you presented you view point very well. I am sorry to see that no other fourm members have joined in the discussion. __________________ The Way of the Warrior is Practice. Daily practice, accumulate practice minute by minute, hour by hour and day by day. {Book of 5 Rings} Mike Brewers 2008 Sit up challenge 50,000/100,000 running balance.(Crunches) Kicks 6,300/100,000

03-31-2007, 03:27 AM	#2 (permalink)
DickHardman Master Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 4,055 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	lol i posted the same thing in open access.

04-01-2007, 08:32 AM	#4 (permalink)
DickHardman Master Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 4,055 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	nobody knows what the future will bring, alliances in iraq shift nearly weekly to be honest. however, this may be the window of oppertunity that we have needed. in the video, a commander states that these tribal alliances have been pretty effective at hunting down insurgents. however, its also true that these same people may turn against us very soon. iraq is still very shaky, and it seems as if alliances between factions change almost monthly. man i really hope they can get iraq under control soon. what do you guys think of the democrats voting for a pullout? i may think this war was wrong to begin with, but now that we are there i dont think we should bail. announcing a pullout or a timetable is a terrible idea.

04-03-2007, 03:40 PM	#7 (permalink)
DickHardman Master Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 4,055 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	the number of casualties in the iraq war may be relatively low, but they are supposed to be relatively low. this is not a conventional battle, guerilla warefare is more about inflicting small but steady casualties to drain morale and recources and disrupt economic efforts. is it true that our country is in debt because of this war? im not sure if it is or isnt at this point, but i do know that BILLIONS of american dollars have been wasted. the iraqi insurgency has done a good job at disrupting the reconstruction effort in iraq. vietnam was way different in that it had many conventional battles with large forces fighting eachother face to face.

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