Go Back   Deluxe Martial Arts Forums > Miscellaneous > Tactical Military and Law-Enforcement Training

Tactical Military and Law-Enforcement Training Please do not post operational details of current or past missions that could compromise the people on the ground right now. This is not a forum for the discussion of current doctrine, but for the exchange of training ideas that will give US soldier


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 04-20-2008, 08:14 PM   #1 (permalink)
Excessive Moderator
 
eXcessiveForce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Missouri
Posts: 2,663
eXcessiveForce is a glorious beacon of lighteXcessiveForce is a glorious beacon of lighteXcessiveForce is a glorious beacon of lighteXcessiveForce is a glorious beacon of lighteXcessiveForce is a glorious beacon of light
Default M4 good enough or time for a change?

Military's gun of choice under fire - Military - MSNBC.com
__________________
eXcessiveFORCE.

If you must use force, make it excessive.
eXcessiveForce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2008, 09:54 PM   #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
TTEscrima's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: planet Earth
Posts: 573
TTEscrima has a spectacular aura aboutTTEscrima has a spectacular aura aboutTTEscrima has a spectacular aura about
Default

I'll grant you that there are a fair number of "Jessica Lynch's" (whose idiocy fundamentally altered the Army's training philosophy) out there but the average soldier isn't to blame, the weapon is.

I would challenge anyone to take an M4 out of the armory, clean it, and run 500 rounds of military ball through it during a live fire exercise in either of our current AO's including low crawls, 3 to 5 second rushes, etc. without having to clear a malfunction.

The HK416 is a better choice especially in light of the current and likely future AO's.
TTEscrima is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2008, 10:08 PM   #3 (permalink)
Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,055
DickHardman is a jewel in the roughDickHardman is a jewel in the roughDickHardman is a jewel in the roughDickHardman is a jewel in the rough
Default

what about the HK G3 ? when i use the G3 in Battlefield2 multiplayer, i usually get pretty decent scores as it seems to be more powerful than most of the other rifles in the game and is pretty accurate at long distances.

DickHardman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2008, 10:24 PM   #4 (permalink)
Registered User
 
TTEscrima's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: planet Earth
Posts: 573
TTEscrima has a spectacular aura aboutTTEscrima has a spectacular aura aboutTTEscrima has a spectacular aura about
Default

Is this guy for real?
TTEscrima is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2008, 11:53 PM   #5 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Tom Yum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Here and there.
Posts: 11,179
Tom Yum is a splendid one to beholdTom Yum is a splendid one to beholdTom Yum is a splendid one to beholdTom Yum is a splendid one to beholdTom Yum is a splendid one to beholdTom Yum is a splendid one to behold
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TTEscrima View Post
Is this guy for real?
He's probably high as we speak.
__________________
The more I learn, the more I realize how little I know. Slow is fast; fast is slow.

Love it, leave it or fix it.
Tom Yum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2008, 11:58 PM   #6 (permalink)
Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,055
DickHardman is a jewel in the roughDickHardman is a jewel in the roughDickHardman is a jewel in the roughDickHardman is a jewel in the rough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Yum View Post
He's probably high as we speak.
look, the G3 is a great rifle. even the north hollywood bank robbers were packing a G3 rifle.


YouTube Video
If you are able to see this message it means that you don't have flash installed or that the video server is down.
DickHardman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2008, 12:51 AM   #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
TTEscrima's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: planet Earth
Posts: 573
TTEscrima has a spectacular aura aboutTTEscrima has a spectacular aura aboutTTEscrima has a spectacular aura about
Default

Bank robbers and soldiers have different needs. Look up piston driven weapons, I'm sure the video games don't explain those little details for the kiddies.
TTEscrima is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2008, 11:03 AM   #8 (permalink)
Moderate Moderator
 
Mike Brewer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,094
Mike Brewer is a splendid one to beholdMike Brewer is a splendid one to beholdMike Brewer is a splendid one to beholdMike Brewer is a splendid one to beholdMike Brewer is a splendid one to beholdMike Brewer is a splendid one to behold
Default

The new Sig 556 is also a great weapon, and would be very very easy to convert to something on the order of the 6.8mm Special round. The functions are virtually the same as the M4, but with major differences in the internal workings. The Sig Sauer rifle is very, very accurate, and only marginally heavier than the M4. It also comes in a variety of configurations for all sorts of mission.

Show Product Details

The action and firing mechanisms are more solid, less prone to failure, and more suited to dirty, nasty environments. The only downside is that you need a tool to take it apart and really clean it well. I'm not sure if that's something they could fix, but small tools tend not to last long in the field. It's why machine gunners are forever buying and trading for their very own headspace and timing gauges. The ones that come with the guns tend to wander off.

The rifle has a pistol grip that looks like it came right off a SAW, and the buffer assembly is all internal. The stock can be collapsible or it can fold up on the side of the gun, because there's no recoil spring extending back into the stock. That makes it really well suited to airborne operations and close in urban fighting. It also uses standard issue NATO magazines, so there's no cost for conversion there either. If they made it in 6.8 mm SPC, for example, the gun would be a real show-stopper, using bullets that are roughly double the current weight with the same magazines and only a 2 round difference in capacity.

Also, it's a piston driven action, so the likelihood of failures based on gas tube clogging and whatnot are nowhere near as prevalent as with the M4.

I wouldn't bet on seeing this though. The military is far too invested in this creature - which also solves about as many problems as it creates.

Objective Individual Combat Weapon (OICW)

I'd like to see them dump the 5.56 and go to 6.8 with this one too, since it's still being developed. No sense waiting until it's done and then having to retrofit everything. Do it before they hit mass production.
Mike Brewer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2008, 05:44 PM   #9 (permalink)
Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,055
DickHardman is a jewel in the roughDickHardman is a jewel in the roughDickHardman is a jewel in the roughDickHardman is a jewel in the rough
Default

what about the fn2000??

YouTube Video
If you are able to see this message it means that you don't have flash installed or that the video server is down.
DickHardman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2008, 05:45 PM   #10 (permalink)
Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,055
DickHardman is a jewel in the roughDickHardman is a jewel in the roughDickHardman is a jewel in the roughDickHardman is a jewel in the rough
Default

YouTube Video
If you are able to see this message it means that you don't have flash installed or that the video server is down.
DickHardman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2008, 06:44 PM   #11 (permalink)
Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,055
DickHardman is a jewel in the roughDickHardman is a jewel in the roughDickHardman is a jewel in the roughDickHardman is a jewel in the rough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TTEscrima View Post
Bank robbers and soldiers have different needs. Look up piston driven weapons, I'm sure the video games don't explain those little details for the kiddies.
tell us about it. what you think of the g3 ??

do you think the hollywood bank robbers could have caused greater problems for police and swat had they known how to use the G3 properly???

i dont know much about guns, but wasnt the g3 made to stop infantry assaults??
DickHardman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2008, 06:50 PM   #12 (permalink)
Registered User
 
TTEscrima's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: planet Earth
Posts: 573
TTEscrima has a spectacular aura aboutTTEscrima has a spectacular aura aboutTTEscrima has a spectacular aura about
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DickHardman View Post
tell us about it. what you think of the g3 ??

do you think the hollywood bank robbers could have caused greater problems for police and swat had they known how to use the G3 properly???

i dont know much about guns, but wasnt the g3 made to stop infantry assaults??
Delta has been using the 416 since 2004 and are happy with it. As for whether understanding the proper use of a weapon increases your ability to use it, DUH. Only a stoned MMA proponent would ask a question like that.

Why ask me what its intended use was, put the bong down, close the video game and do some research.
TTEscrima is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2008, 06:52 PM   #13 (permalink)
Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,055
DickHardman is a jewel in the roughDickHardman is a jewel in the roughDickHardman is a jewel in the roughDickHardman is a jewel in the rough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TTEscrima View Post

Why ask me what its intended use was, put the bong down, close the video game and do some research.
i looked around, couldnt find anything that great, hoped you could shed some light on the rifle.

plus why are you telling me to put the bong down, you told me yourself you are a big pothead.
DickHardman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2008, 06:54 PM   #14 (permalink)
Registered User
 
TTEscrima's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: planet Earth
Posts: 573
TTEscrima has a spectacular aura aboutTTEscrima has a spectacular aura aboutTTEscrima has a spectacular aura about
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DickHardman View Post
i looked around, couldnt find anything that great, hoped you could shed some light on the rifle.
I think you're too stoned to use the search engine.

HKPRO:* The G3
TTEscrima is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2008, 06:57 PM   #15 (permalink)
Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,055
DickHardman is a jewel in the roughDickHardman is a jewel in the roughDickHardman is a jewel in the roughDickHardman is a jewel in the rough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TTEscrima View Post
I think you're too stoned to use the search engine.

HKPRO: The G3
thanks, but that website wasnt really that great.
DickHardman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Some things never change.... Broadsword2004 Fitness, Nutrition and Training Forum 2 01-30-2005 07:39 PM
Taking Muay Thai and JKD classes at the same time...good or bad idea? Aimhigher38 Jeet Kune Do Discussion Forum 17 08-07-2004 02:42 AM
Taking MT and JKD at the same time...good or bad idea? Aimhigher38 Thaiboxing and Kickboxing 10 07-20-2004 01:11 AM
(( Short Time vs Long Time Training )) blade_cs Mixed Martial Arts (MMA) & BJJ Forum 7 11-06-2002 07:59 AM
Zab: Big Mouth, Too Cocky, Not Good Enough...This Time Rock Ape Mixed Martial Arts (MMA) & BJJ Forum 3 11-04-2001 09:36 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.2.0 RC5
Template-Modifications by TMS
© Copyright 1996-2003, Mousel's Self-Defense Academy