Muay Boran, Chap Ko and Chern Mahd

bartjam · 01-13-2004, 08:00 AM

Have you ever practiced or got into contact with Muay Boran? MB is a non-sport form of MT, thus eliminating rules, gloves, referees etc. etc.
It provides not only punches, kicks, elbows and knees but also Chap Ko (grappling) and bare-knuckle fighting techniques (Chern Mahd).
Here in Italy there's an academy where you can train it
http://www.muaythai.it/HOME.html

is there something similar in the UK or in USA/Australia/Canada that you know?
tnx

george stando · 01-15-2004, 02:03 PM

I trained on a couple trips to thailand in muay boran and various other arts. I was puzzled a bit by the italians material especially in Budo, etc so I brought alot of it to thailand including several tapes to show the teachers. The terms Chap Ko etc were invented by them and the system they teach seems a recreation of the old method. I trained with a few of the teachers and they each taught specific info. It seems the italian school is from the sports department of the thai government which teach a more generic version of the art. This is essentially what I got from my questioning in thailand. There are very good teachers in the US as I got alot of the leads from them, they teach krabi krabong as well as the bare knuckle and military variants. The best person to contact on this in the uS is one american who lived and trained there and has been working on a book for quite some time. Alot of the teachers herein the US dont have public schools, etc kind of like thailand were you train in peoples houses or backyards. If you need any help on this I can dig up my notes etc
gstando@hotmail.com

bartjam · 01-19-2004, 10:29 AM

Hi George,

rumors are running in Italy about false "masters" who travel to Thailand and then claim to teach "old style" bare-knuckle thai boxing... it's sad if it's true..
Anyway, I've never watched a "Muay Boran" tape, just had a look at some illustrated article

cheers

george stando · 01-19-2004, 10:49 AM

Bartjam:
There are very few foreigners trained completely in the old styles from what I heard and seen. The ones that are sort of work the same way the teachers taught them more on a low key basis. We have good teachers of it in the US but they are few and far between. The italian school is definitely a recreation. People like to exploit things because they can easily wrap it up in a new "label"(muay boran, ling lom, lerd rit) because in essense people dont know what these styles are so they get a free reign to do and teach as they please because theres no one to dispute it. In the last issue of Budo, the italian teacher was propagating and competing in what appeared to be a "forms" competition in muay boran which takes it very far from its root. I would definitely process with caution if you are looking for authentic bare knuckle material from the italian school.

haumana2000 · 01-19-2004, 11:38 AM

Vincent Giordano is one of the most knowledgeable people that I have met in reference to the old bare knuckle styles, and he can pretty much give you an idea of what you are asking about is crap. I think he goes under black grass in the martialtalk forums, so you may want to ask there. Also, Jason webster of the US, from what I have heard is very knowedgeable as well. Then there is Ajarn Salty Dog Sanford of the Dog brothers, I know he has done, KArbi, but I do not know how much of the empty hand components he has trained in. I know that the mpty hand forms used to be propagated by the buddai swain sword fighting institute in thailand.

William · 01-20-2004, 09:09 AM

You can also check with Chalambok on this forum. I don't know how often he frequents this forum anymore but he is the highest ranked active instructor in the U.S. in Krabi-Krabong. He also teaches Muay Thai Boran, and Muay Thai Kacheuk (trained in Thailand).

Quote:

Alot of the teachers herein the US dont have public schools, etc kind of like thailand were you train in peoples houses or backyards.

You are correct. For over two years Chalambok would come over to train us in my garage. We also sometimes trained in school yards and on tennis courts.
It's just not something you're going to find in mainstream schools.

William

george stando · 01-23-2004, 10:37 PM

I second Mr. Giordano as a well of unbelieveable info. I checked that forum but I think though hes blackdiamondcobra there not blackgrass. Could be wrong.

Khun Kao · 01-25-2004, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by george stando

I second Mr. Giordano as a well of unbelieveable info. I checked that forum but I think though hes blackdiamondcobra there not blackgrass. Could be wrong.

BlackDiamondCobra is his old screenname. He lately posts as "Pahuyuth". He has an unbelievable amount of knowledge regarding the roots of Muay Thai and its modern subsets.

Khun Kao

01-13-2004, 08:00 AM	#1 (permalink)
bartjam Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: italy Posts: 178	Muay Boran, Chap Ko and Chern Mahd Have you ever practiced or got into contact with Muay Boran? MB is a non-sport form of MT, thus eliminating rules, gloves, referees etc. etc. It provides not only punches, kicks, elbows and knees but also Chap Ko (grappling) and bare-knuckle fighting techniques (Chern Mahd). Here in Italy there's an academy where you can train it http://www.muaythai.it/HOME.html is there something similar in the UK or in USA/Australia/Canada that you know? tnx

01-19-2004, 11:38 AM	#5 (permalink)
haumana2000 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 307	Vincent Giordano is one of the most knowledgeable people that I have met in reference to the old bare knuckle styles, and he can pretty much give you an idea of what you are asking about is crap. I think he goes under black grass in the martialtalk forums, so you may want to ask there. Also, Jason webster of the US, from what I have heard is very knowedgeable as well. Then there is Ajarn Salty Dog Sanford of the Dog brothers, I know he has done, KArbi, but I do not know how much of the empty hand components he has trained in. I know that the mpty hand forms used to be propagated by the buddai swain sword fighting institute in thailand. __________________ Tenei te koorero mo te wa rapua i te mea ngaro "search for what is missing, hidden, stolen"

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01-15-2004, 02:03 PM	#2 (permalink)
george stando Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: East coast soon Bangkok Posts: 188	I trained on a couple trips to thailand in muay boran and various other arts. I was puzzled a bit by the italians material especially in Budo, etc so I brought alot of it to thailand including several tapes to show the teachers. The terms Chap Ko etc were invented by them and the system they teach seems a recreation of the old method. I trained with a few of the teachers and they each taught specific info. It seems the italian school is from the sports department of the thai government which teach a more generic version of the art. This is essentially what I got from my questioning in thailand. There are very good teachers in the US as I got alot of the leads from them, they teach krabi krabong as well as the bare knuckle and military variants. The best person to contact on this in the uS is one american who lived and trained there and has been working on a book for quite some time. Alot of the teachers herein the US dont have public schools, etc kind of like thailand were you train in peoples houses or backyards. If you need any help on this I can dig up my notes etc gstando@hotmail.com

01-19-2004, 10:29 AM	#3 (permalink)
bartjam Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: italy Posts: 178	Hi George, rumors are running in Italy about false "masters" who travel to Thailand and then claim to teach "old style" bare-knuckle thai boxing... it's sad if it's true.. Anyway, I've never watched a "Muay Boran" tape, just had a look at some illustrated article cheers

01-19-2004, 10:49 AM	#4 (permalink)
george stando Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: East coast soon Bangkok Posts: 188	Bartjam: There are very few foreigners trained completely in the old styles from what I heard and seen. The ones that are sort of work the same way the teachers taught them more on a low key basis. We have good teachers of it in the US but they are few and far between. The italian school is definitely a recreation. People like to exploit things because they can easily wrap it up in a new "label"(muay boran, ling lom, lerd rit) because in essense people dont know what these styles are so they get a free reign to do and teach as they please because theres no one to dispute it. In the last issue of Budo, the italian teacher was propagating and competing in what appeared to be a "forms" competition in muay boran which takes it very far from its root. I would definitely process with caution if you are looking for authentic bare knuckle material from the italian school.

01-23-2004, 10:37 PM	#7 (permalink)
george stando Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: East coast soon Bangkok Posts: 188	I second Mr. Giordano as a well of unbelieveable info. I checked that forum but I think though hes blackdiamondcobra there not blackgrass. Could be wrong.

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