Nick1_S

What do you guys think of the various grading systems that have appeared for Muay Thai?

As far as I am aware, Muay Thai was similar to boxing in the way that practitioners prove themsleves through actual fights. The only belt you will get is a championship one. When was the last time you saw a boxer having a 'grading'?

You may have the right techniques in your grading but does this measure fitness, speed, toughness, heart? Does this mean you can fight - to me - no it does not.

Not really aware of any Thai grading systems and I know that the amulet worn around the arm is for belief purposes. They believe magic charms will protect them in the ring. But I have seen it adopted in some UK schools that having different colours on your arm indicates your grade.

Is this a western philosophy applied to an eastern art?

sslinky

I actually think the grading system is detremental to learning.
I can understand why it's used, ie. to give students goals and achievements etc and to instill some form of rank, which might have a bit of a positive effect in some ways, however, in general I think it's a negative thing.
For example:
Students of a particular belt tend to spend most of their time training with students of the same or similar belts. This means you don't get much experience with better fighters and therefore don't learn nearly as quickly as you could.
However good or bad they are, students tend to spend a minimum, or fixed time on a particular belt, learning a particular set of techniques and so on, when maybe they need to spend a shorter or longer time learning particular things. It's not an effective use of training time.
And we all know that belts are only there to hold your trousers up anyway, so what's the point? My MT class is actually a combination of MT/KB/Karate etc, so we wear belts instead of armbands, and they always get in the way, come loose etc.

Get rid of them!

Damian Mavis

Yes gradings in Muay Thai is totally a Western influence, there is absolutely nothing like it in Thailand. You can either kick ass or you can't here.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

Thai Bri

Maybe you should get little pictures of arses and sow them to your shorts. So you could start at, for example, a One Arse Kicker level, and go on through the ranks to get a Ten Arse Kicker level.

Or maybe keep one arse, but change its' colour? maybe start at white, through yellow, orange, green, blue, purple, three browns (coz many arses do go brown alot) and then black. When you'rs so good you can lick everyone else, you could be a Grandmaster Arse Licker? Make it red and white? Something like that?

What do you think? Personally I reckon its all a bit meaningless - but the western mind does so need to carry around symbols of acheivement.

gregimotis

Ajarn Chai (TBA-USA) introduced a grading method which revolves around the intructors test - which you must take with him. I presume he did this so he could control the qulaity of instructors under the TBA-USA name....

Otherwise, I have to agree - either you can do it, or you can't.

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I am Tired. Tired. Tired.

aseepish

I`m all in favour of having a grading system for instructors - based not only on one`s technical ability but also teaching ablility, and perhaps the number of successful fighters one has produced.

For fighters? Nah.

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"It was about that time I realized that searching was my symbol, the emblem of those who go out at night with nothing in mind, the motives of a destroyer of compasses." -Cortázar

MuayThaiFighter

In our gradings we are tested on techniques,speed,power and our ability to put it together in sparring.We sparr in every grading.

We are not only tested by how we do at the grading but also how we do in class and tournaments,it all adds up.

We have no belt systen in our school, however we do wear t-shirts with different coloured out lining of logo of school every time we pass a grading.

Because I actually do Pankration and Muay Thai we are tested on all Muay Techniques (jabs,right cross,upper cuts,hooks,knees,shin kicks and blocks,elbows,clinching and stand up wrestling etc.)and all Submission wrestling techniques (side body position,reverside body,guard and mount positioning,arm bars,knee locks,elbow locks,ankle locks,chokes,reversals,neck cranks etc.).

We are also tested on Muay Thai sparring against both someone our size and someone bigger and we are also tested on how well we apply our Submission Wrestling techniques.Then we are tested on putting both the Muay Thai and Submission Wrestling together for sparring.So we'll start off fighting stand up and go for take-down and get our opponent to tap out.

My instructor believes the real test comes from actually sparring and that without knowing how to apply the techniques and without actual full contact sparring in class,grading and competition the techniques taught would mean nothing.

I agree with him,because why learn a technique if you're not going to ever try and apply it in your sparring.

We are mostly tested on technique,speed,power,cardio and how well we sparr against both someone else of our level and someone at a higher level.

seany85

I agree with the fact that grades where only introduced for Western Cultures

Nick1_S

Well, it seems most ppl seem to agree with me on this point that gradings are pretty meaningless in MT. Its a fighting art, not a dance or a show.
I also agree that we westerners need to have some symbol of our sucess which is pretty sad. We should be able to prove ourselves when it counts.

With regards to Adjarn Chai's instructors test, is this an international thing or just in the US? Been trying to teach Thai boxing in my local gym and they say I need an instructors certificate for insurance purposes. I have spent hours searching the internet for a course in the UK but have found nothing.
It seems most instructors have trained and fought for a while and then teach. Nothing wrong with this in my view but I was just wondering if there were any courses for insurance reasons.

dbok1

Those of you that think Muay Thai should be "graded", then why not grade boxing and wreastling too??? Yes Muay Thai is a Martial Art, but very much different then the rest. It's more of a "ring sport" and should be viewed as such.

Bottom Line- There is NO grading in Muay Thai other then your Name! What I mean by that is your name is your reputation for fighting, teaching, training...what ever the case may be. Unless you step out of your inner circle which is your local gym and travel and fight how will you ever get better? Just because you can man handle everyone at your gym doesn't mean you can become an instructor or "master Muay Thai".

I'm not trying to put anyone down who has "ranks" at your gym, but like most of you already said it's a western influence and not world wide. The only Rank Muay Thai has is someone given a "KRU", but not everyone can give and recieve. I was just recently given "senior Instrutor" by one of my first trainers Sakasem who is known world wide as being one of the best fighters and trainers around. I didn't ask for it, I didn't train for it...it was given to me after 15yrs of training and love for the sport of Muay Thai.

I hope this put's a different view on things for everyone!

__________________
David Bokman
Senior Instru. Under "Sakasem"
Body Arts Gym
Muay Thai & MMA
www.bodyartsgym.com
Philadelphia, PA

Torque

My gym has a grading system, and as someone said it's the color of your armband (praciat).

However, I don't really agree with this, it's a ring sport.

dbok1

Torque,

In thai boxing the color of arm band has nothing to do with rank! The arm band is worn during fights ONLY!! It's used as a good luck charm for the fighter. Usually it consist of monk's cloth and inside is a small good luck charm. The one's you can buy online are just simply arm bands with no meaning what's so ever. Just like the head band (monkol) it belongs to the gym and never by the fighter!

Those are traditional items........not used as a ranking system.

__________________
David Bokman
Senior Instru. Under "Sakasem"
Body Arts Gym
Muay Thai & MMA
www.bodyartsgym.com
Philadelphia, PA

MuayThaiFighter

I agree that Muay Thai should be tested in the ring and only the ring,however if there is going to be a grading as is in this western part of the world it should be based mostly on full contact sparring.

Torque

I wasn't saying what I thought, or believed, I was saying that's how it works at my gym, and that I don't agree with it.

silapathai

Call me crazy but aren't there different levels of Kru(Chaiya, Khun, etc.)? I trained under the M.T.I.A. for a number of years and did my instructor certification under Master Toddy in Vegas and yes we use a colored sash ranking but only because it's set up as a system. I am also currently training under the almost forgotten Tjakai school of Muay Thai/kickboxing/kyokushinkai(Roy Martina of HOlland founded this system, he was Rob Kaman's first Instructor. Rob had around 15 fights while still with Martina before he parted ways to Mejiro) which uses a sash/serang/belt ranking system. Honestly I think it's fine to use a ranking system if you're practicing Muay Thai as a complete martial art and not just for the Ring! There are many good gyms/schools out there that produce awesome fighters around the world that are only teaching the ring applications of Muay Thai. Maybe that's all that's important to you.
I was browsing through this forum a week ago or so and saw a member post some links for Muay Chaiya and a old Muay Chaiya technique and what most of you did was make fun of him. I'm really not sure why, good times.....