What's the strategy here? - Page 2

Hikage · 04-22-2004, 03:37 PM

Sorry it's been a while since I've been back to see how this was going, that's why I haven't thanked you for your response. That was informative and it answered my question. It causes me to think though. Why do so many people swear by MT as a powerful martial art to defend you on the street if, by several people's admission, it is designed for the ring? Do they teach you street versions and ring versions? Does it just easily convert?
Thanks for your time...

-Hikage

Damian Mavis · 04-23-2004, 02:05 AM

I train in several martial arts and teach Tae Kwon Do for a living so am probably one of the best suited to give you an opinion on your question. Outside of street fighting courses that do extremely reality based training and just focus on very simple but brutal techniques and teach you how to take a hit and overcome the psychological effects quickly.... outside of that, Muay Thai teaches easy but brutal techniques and teaches you to take a hit faster than other arts and is to me more effective street defence because of that. If you can spend years in other martial arts training seriously than they can be just as effective but Muay Thai gives benefits faster than most arts.

Most people in my experience don't stick with arts long enough or don't train seriously enough to get effectvie street defence skills so if they can learn it quickly from Muay Thai great. Keep in mind most Muay Thai practitioners are young and gungho... even muay thai will be useless to someone that won't train seriously.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

**Thai Bri** · 04-23-2004, 02:43 AM

Very true.

Thai Boxing develops useful attributes for a real fight. Hard hitting, nasty techniques, fitness and an ability to take blows. The impressive looking flowing moves from elsewhere only work under the umberella of compliancy anyway.

squidd · 04-23-2004, 02:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damian Mavis

I train in several martial arts and teach Tae Kwon Do for a living so am probably one of the best suited to give you an opinion on your question. Outside of street fighting courses that do extremely reality based training and just focus on very simple but brutal techniques and teach you how to take a hit and overcome the psychological effects quickly.... outside of that, Muay Thai teaches easy but brutal techniques and teaches you to take a hit faster than other arts and is to me more effective street defence because of that. If you can spend years in other martial arts training seriously than they can be just as effective but Muay Thai gives benefits faster than most arts.

Most people in my experience don't stick with arts long enough or don't train seriously enough to get effectvie street defence skills so if they can learn it quickly from Muay Thai great. Keep in mind most Muay Thai practitioners are young and gungho... even muay thai will be useless to someone that won't train seriously.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

very well said sir damian. the benefit of muay thai lies in its -- for lack of a better term -- brutality. getting battered, as opposed to assumin g that you can evade every attack, is part and parcel of the training.

and again you are correct about "training seriously" to reap MT benefits. however, if i may add a broader perspective to what you have said... "training seriously" need not be equated to hours logged in the gym. i, for example, religiously practice MT techniques but i admit to being guilty of NOT "training seriously" since i shy away from sparring and painful shin-hardening exercises because i am afraid to get hurt and i'm not ashamed to admit it.

Damian Mavis · 04-23-2004, 12:22 PM

Thai Bri, I still believe that all martial arts work for the experts, but you have to put in the time and dedication to get to the level of making them work. Even in stereotypical myth of martial arts we always thought of "the master" as being a guy that trained martial arts for like 40 years, somewere along the line we decided that if it doesn't make you a killer by next week than the art must be useless... to me that is ridiculous.

Squidd, you can't be much more scared of getting hit than I was, I was raised by a single mother/hippie who's only advice to getting picked on and beaten up every day by bullies was to turn the other cheek. My mother raised me to be a victim and I spent my youth being terrified of everyone and as I grew into manhood had many insecurities. Thanks to many years of TKD (a very tough TKD school in Quebec... those frenchies don't play around) and sticking with it regardless of my fear and hatred of getting hurt I overcame my many fears and phobias and went on to take Muay Thai and even fight in the ring in Thailand (my opponent sucked but I didn't know that going in!)

Now I still have some fears but not nearly as many, the fear of getting hit is completely gone, the main accomplishment is I control my fears and don't let them interfere with my life or personal growth as a martial artist or a person.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

**Thai Bri** · 04-23-2004, 01:33 PM

Damian - thats where we differ. I think the ats should work for us as much as possible. Some people dedicate their lives to amke an inefficient art work, when they could have got the same results with another art in 6 months.

Mister · 04-23-2004, 05:28 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The problem is this, they don't fluck about. I fondly remembering seeing a Ninjitsu stylist in UFC (1 or 2). At the beginning of the tape he gets to show off all his wonderful technique in a promo film. When he fought Pat Smith (who, amongst other arts, has done Thai Boxing) he lasted less than thirty seconds and was blasted to the middle of next week.

Actually, in a previous fight Scott Morris (the ninjitsu stylist)applied his technique quite well against his opponent, (a TKD stylist) who looked much smaller. This guy obviously wasnt as tough as Pat Smith. He quickly took the TKD guy down and tapped him out with a choke. He used the same strategy against Pat Smith. It didnt work out too well for him though.

I agree though, most of the twirly whirly stuff is no good.

squidd · 04-26-2004, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damian Mavis

Squidd, you can't be much more scared of getting hit than I was, I was raised by a single mother/hippie who's only advice to getting picked on and beaten up every day by bullies was to turn the other cheek. My mother raised me to be a victim and I spent my youth being terrified of everyone and as I grew into manhood had many insecurities. Thanks to many years of TKD (a very tough TKD school in Quebec... those frenchies don't play around) and sticking with it regardless of my fear and hatred of getting hurt I overcame my many fears and phobias and went on to take Muay Thai and even fight in the ring in Thailand (my opponent sucked but I didn't know that going in!)

Now I still have some fears but not nearly as many, the fear of getting hit is completely gone, the main accomplishment is I control my fears and don't let them interfere with my life or personal growth as a martial artist or a person.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

i will have to half agree and half disagree. while your mother may have let you get beaten up, my mother beat me up... regularly. this includes getting my head kicked while i'm stuck in a corner of the bathroom, getting my head kicked while i'm stuck in the corner of the bedroom, getting choked so badly that by the time i was rescued you could wring blood off of my shirt. si i guess i'd be at least a tad more scared about getting hit...

which moves us forward to where i agree with you. that accomplishment is really in controlling the fear that once controled the one who is afraid.

peace!

Damian Mavis · 04-26-2004, 11:52 AM

Man that sucks, guess you can be more scared than I was. You recognise the problem and the source of your fear and are able to talk about it which to me sounds very healthy... hopefully you are not to far away from overcoming your demons and fears. Goodluck to you man.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

squidd · 04-26-2004, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damian Mavis

Man that sucks, guess you can be more scared than I was.

verily verily my friend. there were at least two nights when i woke up with my mother hitting me with a belt... using the buckle end. the horror stories i gave you were just enough to skim your challenge of "being more scared than you" by a few centimeters.

but don't worry man, i'm cool about it. get beaten up by my mom, my girlfriend, in the gym... i don't think much of it. i have, however, never lost in street fight (and i've had several).

**Thai Bri** · 04-27-2004, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by squidd

verily verily my friend. there were at least two nights when i woke up with my mother hitting me with a belt... using the buckle end.

Well, get out of her bed then.

Tom Yum · 04-27-2004, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by squidd

verily verily my friend. there were at least two nights when i woke up with my mother hitting me with a belt... using the buckle end. the horror stories i gave you were just enough to skim your challenge of "being more scared than you" by a few centimeters.

but don't worry man, i'm cool about it. get beaten up by my mom, my girlfriend, in the gym... i don't think much of it. i have, however, never lost in street fight (and i've had several).

And people wonder why Asians are so wacky...jj.

**Thai Bri** · 04-27-2004, 01:35 AM

My belt beat your mums belt by 22-2?

Convinced?

squidd · 04-27-2004, 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thai Bri

Well, get out of her bed then.

booo hooo hooo.... thai bri is making fun of my abused childhood...

i'm gonna tell my daddy...

04-22-2004, 03:37 PM	#16 (permalink)
Hikage Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Southern PA Posts: 543 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Sorry it's been a while since I've been back to see how this was going, that's why I haven't thanked you for your response. That was informative and it answered my question. It causes me to think though. Why do so many people swear by MT as a powerful martial art to defend you on the street if, by several people's admission, it is designed for the ring? Do they teach you street versions and ring versions? Does it just easily convert? Thanks for your time... -Hikage __________________ -=It's like a door open and closed=- -= "Neque porro quisquam est qui dolorem ipsum quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit." =-

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04-23-2004, 02:05 AM	#17 (permalink)
Damian Mavis Registered User Join Date: May 2003 Location: Bangkok, Thailand Posts: 669 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	I train in several martial arts and teach Tae Kwon Do for a living so am probably one of the best suited to give you an opinion on your question. Outside of street fighting courses that do extremely reality based training and just focus on very simple but brutal techniques and teach you how to take a hit and overcome the psychological effects quickly.... outside of that, Muay Thai teaches easy but brutal techniques and teaches you to take a hit faster than other arts and is to me more effective street defence because of that. If you can spend years in other martial arts training seriously than they can be just as effective but Muay Thai gives benefits faster than most arts. Most people in my experience don't stick with arts long enough or don't train seriously enough to get effectvie street defence skills so if they can learn it quickly from Muay Thai great. Keep in mind most Muay Thai practitioners are young and gungho... even muay thai will be useless to someone that won't train seriously. Damian Mavis Honour TKD

04-23-2004, 02:43 AM	#18 (permalink)
Thai Bri Premiere Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 5,423 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Very true. Thai Boxing develops useful attributes for a real fight. Hard hitting, nasty techniques, fitness and an ability to take blows. The impressive looking flowing moves from elsewhere only work under the umberella of compliancy anyway.

04-23-2004, 12:22 PM	#20 (permalink)
Damian Mavis Registered User Join Date: May 2003 Location: Bangkok, Thailand Posts: 669 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thai Bri, I still believe that all martial arts work for the experts, but you have to put in the time and dedication to get to the level of making them work. Even in stereotypical myth of martial arts we always thought of "the master" as being a guy that trained martial arts for like 40 years, somewere along the line we decided that if it doesn't make you a killer by next week than the art must be useless... to me that is ridiculous. Squidd, you can't be much more scared of getting hit than I was, I was raised by a single mother/hippie who's only advice to getting picked on and beaten up every day by bullies was to turn the other cheek. My mother raised me to be a victim and I spent my youth being terrified of everyone and as I grew into manhood had many insecurities. Thanks to many years of TKD (a very tough TKD school in Quebec... those frenchies don't play around) and sticking with it regardless of my fear and hatred of getting hurt I overcame my many fears and phobias and went on to take Muay Thai and even fight in the ring in Thailand (my opponent sucked but I didn't know that going in!) Now I still have some fears but not nearly as many, the fear of getting hit is completely gone, the main accomplishment is I control my fears and don't let them interfere with my life or personal growth as a martial artist or a person. Damian Mavis Honour TKD

04-23-2004, 01:33 PM	#21 (permalink)
Thai Bri Premiere Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 5,423 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Damian - thats where we differ. I think the ats should work for us as much as possible. Some people dedicate their lives to amke an inefficient art work, when they could have got the same results with another art in 6 months.

04-23-2004, 05:28 PM	#22 (permalink)
Mister Registered User Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 18 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The problem is this, they don't fluck about. I fondly remembering seeing a Ninjitsu stylist in UFC (1 or 2). At the beginning of the tape he gets to show off all his wonderful technique in a promo film. When he fought Pat Smith (who, amongst other arts, has done Thai Boxing) he lasted less than thirty seconds and was blasted to the middle of next week. Actually, in a previous fight Scott Morris (the ninjitsu stylist)applied his technique quite well against his opponent, (a TKD stylist) who looked much smaller. This guy obviously wasnt as tough as Pat Smith. He quickly took the TKD guy down and tapped him out with a choke. He used the same strategy against Pat Smith. It didnt work out too well for him though. I agree though, most of the twirly whirly stuff is no good.

04-26-2004, 11:52 AM	#24 (permalink)
Damian Mavis Registered User Join Date: May 2003 Location: Bangkok, Thailand Posts: 669 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Man that sucks, guess you can be more scared than I was. You recognise the problem and the source of your fear and are able to talk about it which to me sounds very healthy... hopefully you are not to far away from overcoming your demons and fears. Goodluck to you man. Damian Mavis Honour TKD

04-27-2004, 01:35 AM	#28 (permalink)
Thai Bri Premiere Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 5,423 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	My belt beat your mums belt by 22-2? Convinced?

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