Hikage

Ok, you'll have to forgive me, but I'm about to ask one of the most basic questions ever.

Background...
I'm a ninjitsu stylist who was kinda sheltered about other arts (except for the basics like TKD and Kung Fu) before coming here. Upon my arrival here, I instantly was wowed by the number of you who swear by MT as a sport and combat art so when I saw K1 on ESPN2 last nite, i thought i would watch to see what it's all about.

What I saw was amazing in that it seemed incredibly stupid. I watched 2 championship matches and 2 or 3 other semifinal rounds in which the combatants came at each other like 2 bulls. It appeared that the whole concept and strategy was to punch/kick the other guy hard enough and enough times to hurt him enough to no longer continue. Rarely did they block. Rarely did they evade.

I would think that in an art that so many swear by that there would be more than brute force. What's the real strategy here? I'm sure there's something I didn't see.

-Hikage

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Thai Bri

The problem is this, they don't fluck about. I fondly remembering seeing a Ninjitsu stylist in UFC (1 or 2). At the beginning of the tape he gets to show off all his wonderful technique in a promo film. When he fought Pat Smith (who, amongst other arts, has done Thai Boxing) he lasted less than thirty seconds and was blasted to the middle of next week.

Guess what? Real fighting looks ugly and scruffy. The twirly whirly stuff relies on compliancy to work. I gues Pat Smith wasn't feeling all that compliant on the day.

Damian Mavis

K1 is not Muay Thai and is definately not indicative of Muay Thai experts and champions in Thailand. However I come from a TKD background and also thought Muay Thai looked ugly and without strategy before I began training and fighting in it, I was dead wrong and my only advice is that you must train in a style to understand it, not watch a bad copy of it and make judgements. For instance, I think ninjitsu looks ridiculous and has no basis in reality fighting, but I'm sure if I trained it I would discover that it has great qualities.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

Thai Bri

I'm sure you wouldn't.

m.artist

im sure he would

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"Before you open your mouth to speak, please make sure it's an
improvement upon the silence."

Damian Mavis

Ok now I'm confused.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

Ninja Kl0wn

This is the correct answer!

__________________
I have only made one prayer to God, a very short one: "O' Lord, make my enemies ridiculous", and God granted it. - Voltaire

Thai Bri

Thanks.

m.artist. I think you should change your name to p.artist.

thaibxr

that pat smith fight was awesome

Hikage

I appreciate all that you've offered so far, but unfortunately no one has really answered the question. What is the strategy? Does no one in MT try to block or evade? I understand that one can't block all of them and to do such is impractical becuase you'd spend all of your time on defense. Furthermore, I am fully aware that combat is not full of flowers and pink fluffy pillows. However, it seemed much more like they were fighting using the revolutionary war tactics. I stand here in a line, shoot at you without moving from 30 feet away and you do the same to me.

I do recognize the point made by Damen that K1 is perhaps not a fair representation of MT. What did I see then? Are these wannabes or another art all together. Once again, what is the strategy behind MT? I suppose I expected to see similar movements to boxing, just with kicks.

-Hikage

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thaibxr

yes people do block in muay thai k-1 is just stand up fighting with some thai rules you need to get your hands on some thai fights or do a search on the subject and you find all you want and more

Ninja Kl0wn

What you saw was two guys fighting thier third fight of the night.

__________________
I have only made one prayer to God, a very short one: "O' Lord, make my enemies ridiculous", and God granted it. - Voltaire

Damian Mavis

Ya K1 is big heavy men that have to fight several times the same evening and strategy starts to go out the window. K1 is a seperate entity to Muay Thai, they simply have a few similar rules (leg kick and occasional knees - there is so much more in Muay Thai) K1 is more similar to Western Kickboxing than it is to Muay Thai. Muay Thai is loaded with strategy and subtle technique. All they do in Muay Thai is block and defend with swift counters to their opponents mistakes and openings. It's a thing of beauty! heh, if you know what to look for.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

DavidShankle

The strategy?? ummm, hurt the other guy as much as you can without him hurting you? Hah, well it's true what they say. The best defense is a strong offense. A good fighter can keep the other man on the defense for a good majority. But it's safe to say you will get hit one way or another... just try not to let it be a common thing

Khun Kao

The strategy of Muay Thai is real simple: Knock Out the person standing in the ring across from you. If you are unable to KO him, beat him badly enough to win the points.

One thing that must be kept in the back of your mind at all times when watching (and training) in any form of kickboxing is that though they *can* be used quite effectively outside of the ring, they are NOT combat arts. They are ring sports.

That being said, kickboxing training often better prepares people for real-life encounters than said "combat arts". I, too, come from a traditional MA background. I started training in Tang Soo Do and Shotokan, then moved onto Ninjutsu, then discovered Muay Thai and never looked back.

I still remember the first time I saw Muay Thai. I was like, "WTF????". It seemed so sloppy and ugly and without strategy. "This is what everyone is RAVING about???"

But then I tried it. WHOA!

In Muay Thai and other forms of kickboxing, it often looks as though there is no blocking, that essentially two fighters stand toe-to-toe and beat the shit out of one another. SOMETIMES this is actually the case.

K1 often looks like this because as previously mentioned, K1 fighters fight MULTIPLE times in the same night. The strategy in the early fights is to last until the later fights. What often happens is that the early fights are pretty boring because the fighters are sand-bagging to an extent keeping the later fights in mind. By the time they reach the later fights, they are exhausted and pretty beat up, and you get treated to seeing two immobile and slow fighters lean on each other and throw sloppy techniques which they are too tired to block.

But back to the point re: specifically what the strategy is in Muay Thai... There are a number of strategys by which you can approach a fight. Probably the simplest to learn and one of the first taught to students is:

BEGINNING OF FIGHT: attack an opponents legs with kicks to limit their mobility

MIDDLE OF FIGHT: attack a users torso to destroy their wind/energy and to lower their guard.

END OF FIGHT: attack their head to KTFO them

Typically, you will see a lot of blocking in Muay Thai, but very little evasion. This is because, as mentioned, Muay Thai is a SPORT. Evading attacks often amounts to a fighter moving out of the way, which to a judge of the fight is the same as running away. You score favor on a judges score-card by meeting an attack head-on (blocking, not eating the attack) and having an effective counter.

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Kru Brooks C. Miller
USMTA Director of DC, MD, and VA
http://khunkao.com/