xnfx

Hello everyone.
I have some questions regarding the Ram Muay, and the wearing of the Mong Kong and armbands.

1) Out of respect should the Ram Muay be done by all fighters participating in fights with Muay Thai rules? Or should it be left alone for those who fully believe in Budhism (I think that's what it was?)? Would it be more disrespectful to perform one when you are not into that whole belief system, or not perform one because you have just not learned, or not been taught? I recently seen a fight with two fighters claiming to be Muay Thai fighters. Neither wore the Mong Kong or performed a Ram Muay, but both wore armbands. The rules were Thai rules as far as I know.

2) Who can wear the Mong Kong, or the good luck charm armbands? Would it be disrespectful for say a more Kickboxing or westernized style fighter, to wear armbands in a Thai Rules fight? I think I read somewhere that these armbands used to be very sacred and given to the fighters by significant people. But I see there are some online stores selling them. So can it be worn by anyone?


Just some things I was thinking about when doing some research on Muay Thai history.

Thanks!

TONGPO

We, as in our club members, have to perfrom the RamMuay if we wanna fight. I think its also payin homage to the spirits of the ring and your trainers as much as a buddhist ritual. Westerners fighting in Thailand (most of the timepresuambly taught, at least for the last part, of their training) by Thais always seem to do it.

Armbands..well our club uses them as a grading system, which the Thais dont use, so dunno...

I wouldn't bother worrying about it...if the club you fight for does it, do it, if it don't - don't

For Gods sake don't just make up your own based on what you've seen others do just cos ya kickboxer fighting Thai rules....just do what ya trainer says

Ikken Hisatsu

if my coach wanted me to I would. he doesnt, so I dont. it is after all a buddhist custom as well as a thai custom, so I think you have to be a buddhist or you are pretty much just doing a hollow ritual.

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chalambok

The wai kru before the ram muay is to honor your religion (whatever it is), your country, your family and your teacher(s) and/or someone who has passed away. It is designed to take any thought of yourself out of the equation. If a fighter or student is antsy doing this, he obviously is thinking of how uncomfortable he is, and thinking of himself. In other words, not really getting into it. The ram muay, or fight dance, is done to warm up and stretch all the muscles used in fighting, to check out the surface and the area boundaries, and to see where enemy and friend may be. Claims have been made that it is a form of movement meditation. Many camps have their traditional ram muay which may have been done for generations. Newer camps sometimes let their fighters do a personalized ram muay; and some fighters develop their own preferences. It is all personal choice, so whether or not you do the wai kru and ram muay is pretty much up to you. I have seen fights where one fighter's ram muay was so long the other fighter grew cold and angry, and consequently was mentally a loser before the fight even started. I think if you want to play the game, go whole hog and learn a ram muay.

xnfx

That is definately not what I was going to do. I was just asking because I was curious to know how it all works. I've only seen to U.S. Thai fighters do them, and they were Kit Cope and Alex Gong. All the other fights I've had a chance to see so far did not have them. Maybe cause it was on ESPN?

Khun Kao

Chalambok has hit the nail right on the head. I couldn't have said it any better!

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shirase

So basically noone would care whether you did it or not? im curious about this too. That movement meditation thing makes sense, lots of people need to be calmed down before a fight. I remember watching a UFC match where a guy just lay down on the ground spread out(think starfish) in the ring and closed his eyes for like 10 seconds. I guess if your the kind of fighter who likes to be calm, learning how to do a wai kru(ram muay?) could be useful.

chalambok

Well basically, because wai kru means respect for your teacher, it would seem to me anyone who fights muay Thai should demonstrate respect for their teacher. Certainly if your teacher is a member of any of the Thai boxing associations extant in the USA, he has learned at least one ram muay and should be teaching it to his fighters. The TBA requires it during Basic Testing, and I personally know Master Chai wants all TBA fighters to do the wai kru and the ram muay before they fight, and so it is an insult to him if you as a member do not pay respects to him and to the long line of teachers he (and we) represents. Many foreign fighters in Thailand do not do wai kru or ram muay, and the Thai appear not to care overmuch. At the Buddhai Swan we did lengthy ram muay and wai kru before demonstrations, and even wore the mong kol around our neck. The mong kol I brought home from there are too small to go over our (overly big Westerner) heads, so we do not wear them during demonstrations here; but we still do a wai kru and ram muay as a necessary historical perspective. I like to watch a good ram muay, but it is your choice. You should decide based upon all the factors, however. Master Chai's father, when I was living at his house, would sometimes just watch the ram muay, tell us who was going to win the fight, then leave the room. I never saw him make a mistake about the victor. Make of this what you will

xnfx

Is it disrespectful to not watch as your opponent performs his Wai Kru or Ram Muay?

chalambok

Oh, excellent question! Some fighters ignore the opponent totally. Some kind of play along, catching arrows (imaginary psychic) shot at them and breaking them, or throwing down and stomping on them. I have seen fighters even let their opponent touch them and sort of lead them to a spot in the ring. I suspect sometimes they may have actually been friends, or perhaps trained together at one time or another but I really don't know. And I have seen fighters trade mongkols and wish each other luck. 'Course they then proceeded to kick the holy crap out of each other. I think the only thing really important to the Thai, other than a great fight with heart, is one in which the fighters respect each other, the art, and themselves; and it is, after all, just basic humanity anyway.

WMTI

In my opinion, Muay Thai is not just 2 guys bangning shins. Its a sport with historic and cultural background. therefore YES - RAM MUAY should be done by all. It would be disrespectful in my opinion to leave any part out. In all of our events you must perform Ram Muay.

JIMI

Beautiful post sir.

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GonzoStyles

A little about the Ram Muay from what I was taught..

The Ram Muay is actually rooted in the Rama Yana which is a Hindu tale of the god Rama and his helper Hanuman the monkey general. in Olden times the Mongkon (like the Ram Muay)was also a way to identify the boxers homeland.
With the tail of the Mongkon held up the boxer was from the south, when the tail draped down the boxer was from the north, and straight out at right angles to the side was from the central plains.
The Pra jer (arm-band) is placed on with speacil prayers of protection and may also contain personal good luck charms like an Image of the Buddha, or a lock of their mothers hair, etc.
Within the Ram Muay are fundamental Muay Thai teachings like "Yang Sarm Khum" the "three strides movement" which is the basic stance and footwork of Muay Thai.
Some movements are indicitive of other elements of the RamaYana as the movement imitating the magical "Garuda" bird by balancing on one leg. True Muay Thai afficianados are said to be able to judge a boxers footwork and balance by his Ram Muay, This is an event also judged and awarded and frequently wagers are placed on the strenghth of a boxers Ram Muay alone!
In olden times sorcerers or "Mor Phi" in Thai, would Tattoo speacil protective prayers that would sometimes cover a large portion of the Boxers body, some boxers nowadays have a speacil Tattoo of Hanuman on the left bicep.
Other rituals like circling the ring holding the top rope, or touching the surface of the ring by various means actually have strategic values; gauging the floors traction , determining whether ring ropes are tight or loose.

But to me the most important part of the Ram Muay is the music! the haunting sound of the Pi Java (java flute) with the drums and cymbals
droning at a slow pace in the first round, speeding up as the fight progress and eventually coming to a crescendo as it spurrs the fighters on in the last round. This simply cannot be duplicated with a tape or CD as the band are actually present at the fight and will adjust the musics tempo to the speed of the fight!!

I dont believe the Thais are offended by Far Lung (foreigners) not preforming the Wai Khru or Ram Muay. but what is offensive to any true devotee of Muay Thai is the spectators with no respect for centurys old traditions (older than the history of their home country in some cases!)
who boo, hiss or worse treat it like a wrestling match chanting " USA USA "
as the Ram Muay is being performed.

So they next time you get a chance to witness a Ram Muay rember you are watching the evolution of a tradition that through the power of Muay Thai has crossed cultural boundarys and the centurys to remind us of the honor and history of the people responsible for sharing with us their heritage.

Kop Khun Kop

Gonzo

Pork Chop

Hey coach, think I could learn a wai kru and a ram muay?
Definitely would like to pay respect to you and Danny as my trainers; and I also think it might help me stylistically with making the jump over from sanshou/sanda (the movement and balance are a lil different).
Of course, I can wait till closer to fight time if you prefer.

-Pork Chop