CKD

Found this on another forum

"Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 1:41 pm Post subject: My experience training in Muay Thai and BJJ.

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For the summer, i desided to mix it up a bit and try different styles. I found a school called rebellion Jiu jitsu in which they train in Muay Thai and Brazillian Jiu Jitsu. The workout was 3 hours, first half was MT and secound half was BJJ. I tried it for the first time yesterday. This is what i think of the workouts and how they compare to systema.

Muay Thai: The warmup extrecises were very challenging. Alot of skipping, push ups, squats, lunges, sit ups, shuttle runs. After the warm up, you find a parter and one of you picks up some pads. You then practice each type of punch, kick, elbow, knee a few time and then you practice some combinations. We do this for about 45 min and the last 15 min was some light sparring with gloves on. But the funny thing i noticed was that none of my partnets actually hit me if i didnt move away from the strikes. These people are so used to hitting the pads and punching bags, that they are afraid to hit a person. And one of my partners was actually pretty mad when i kicked him, he was too used to his partners stopping right before the strike. But overall,conditioning was great and the technique work was good, especially the kicks and knees (punches are stronger in systema). I just think that some of the students need to grow some balls and learn to take and deliver a punch.

Brazillian Jiu Jitsu: This was very fun. For the first 20 minutes we had a warmup very simular to the MT one. The next part of the workout was techinque work. Every workout they work on a different aspect of the martial art. This time we were working on how to get past your opponent's guard position. All the the techiniques remind me of systema. They are all very easy and require no strenght. After a bit of techinque work we started to spar. The trainier would pair us off and we would just wrestle for 3 minutes, just as we do in systema sometimes. All my partners here had no more then 2 years experience, so i held my own pretty well. This is where being relaxed, flexible and breathing all the time saved me. Many of thier sumbissions rely on the opponent to be tense, but if i am relaxed, i just slip away before they can do anything. I had to tap out only once to a kneebar, but that was because my opponent was 220 (i am 165) and had a year experience. It was very hard to control so much more weight. Since i didnt tell anyone i had systema experience, my partners told me i am a natural.

Overall, i can see that systema is a much more complete martial art then anything ive ever seen. I never trained in kickboxing or grappling but i was able to do very well in both workouts. The BJJ trainer was especially suprised. I think ill join that school just for the summer, to learn some submissions and how to kick properly, but ill still stick to systema!"

What it sounds like is everybody was being nice to him because he was new while he was thinking they were going all out and thinking of it as some kind of challenge match. For some reason the fact that they were not planning to beat on some new guy did not seem to cross his mind. When I started in ma I trained with people who could probaly chew threw me but did not because they were trying to help me improve. I did not get delusional because they could not beat me in a practice session. I read a lot of these on forums on how some person claims to go to a school and takes a class and then says he found his art better even though he did not go at it against the students and approached the material with a closed mind. They never seem to step up and actually ask for a match. I remember reading a karate forum in which the person claimed to take a bjj class and said he felt he could take them because when they were grappling he could have launched a series of blows to there vital spots and kill them. Why do these people never test there theories and ask for a real match?

Tom Yum

Sounds like this guy came from a intense gym and then went into a gym with a lot of new students or a more hands off type training.

I've been to muay thai classes, where students who have been practicing for a year could not throw a decent thai kick with power and lacked good western boxing fundamentals

on the other hand I've been to a class where everyone was in some amateur competitive circuit, thought you were fresh meat and tried to hammer you so you had to up it a little....


As the art gets more popular, get ready for a variety of teaching styles!

CKD

Actually the guy studied Systema which does not seem very hardcore. The video clips are pretty funny though. www.russianmartialart.com

Python

I think you are right Tom Yum, it all depends on the instructor. I have seen some Thai gyms in the states that had great body mechanics but when it came to sparring, they were not very hard core at all, they did not train fighters, just liked the art. Then I have seen a couple who only fought and did not give due time to training technique.

And Yea, CKD, from what I have seen (and again this is just my own thoughts on all this), but I don't think Systema is nearly as hardcore as a well rounded Muay Thai session.

Garland

Correct me if I'm wrong here...but doesn't Systema also contain alot of those really fishy "No Touch KO" crap? Like George Dillman's stuff only with a Russian backstory?

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EmptyneSs

just cause u went to a lame muay thai school and got paired with begginers, doesnt mean all muay thai schools are like that and that all muay thai practitioners are the same. its pretty easy to generalize entire groups of people based on just one experience. come to American Kickboxing Academy, u wont be saying muay thai kickboxers cant hit. if anyone can take a hit, its a tru experienced muay thai kickboxer.

shirase

emptyness if you look at the first post it wasnt CKD who had that experience, it was a systema practitioner from a different forum. Not sure if you knew that it just looks as if you posted it towards CKD.

LoneHusky

yeah here's a pic of his hands on training.

khmerboran

Even bad Muay Thai would be better than systema.

CKD

Here are some clips of Systema. These were the most "practical" systema clips I could find. Everything else looked a bit "odd"
Striking
http://www.systemauk.com/video/nstrike001.wmv
Groundfighting
http://www.systemauk.com/video/Nground01.wmv
Weapons
http://www.systemauk.com/video/NMOVE.WMV
Stick
http://www.systemauk.com/video/NSTICK01.WMV
Knife
http://www.systemauk.com/video/Nknfe.wmv

Someone please take that pro wrestling picture down. That has to be one of the most disturbing things I have ever seen.

theprophet

Looks like it might help in a mosh pit at a Slipknot concert.....errr


I just don't get it.

Screamtruth

Muay Thai guys can't hit?
Hmmm, let me see,
Ramon Dekker and then there's,
Ramon Dekker.
Oh, yeah, almost forgot,
Ramon Dekker.

That dude throws them, and hard.

Coban is no weak putter either.

Most of the guys who I have trained with started with a boxing background, so their hands are pretty KO worthy.

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KICKING you in the face, 'cause that's what we do!

Screamtruth

I have never sparred with a systema practioner, but it sounds like the students in his class were giving him a little of respect being new. Especially in the BJJ class. If he went to a class where the average student had two years experience, he would be killed on the mat. I know this. I went to Tim Mousel's BJJ class and even guys I outweighed by 30 or 40 plus pounds put the hurt on me, and i think they were being easy. It is just to hard not to make a mistake and leave yourself open when you have no experience; systema or not.

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KICKING you in the face, 'cause that's what we do!

Blue Wave Gym

great gym, lousy art, just leg lock the guy already for christ sakes
btw most russian fighters and soliders are total badasses IMHO I doubt these guys playing grab ass could prevail over them in a match

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