gabbah

I have seen a few instructionals of muay thai, and in a few of them they were showing boxing that had fundamental flaws. One would think that they would at least be able to show the technique of boxing correctly (even if they can't use it in matches). But I have seen errors like dropping the protecting hand while throwing a hook, thus leaving the chin totally exposed to a counter hook, and loading up before throwing an uppercut, totally telegraphing it and making it easy to evade.
I thought that they at least had the theory down right... but I guess those muay thai guys really don't learn good boxing.

This is actually one of the reasons I haven't moved to thai boxing just yet. I want to learn proper boxing, which I'm doing now in kickboxing.

Anyway, I'm a bit dissapointed at those instructionals.. they should have the theory down and be able to teach it, even if they don't instinctively use it in a match or sparring. After all, it's an instructional video...

KDH

They make up for their lack of skills with their fists, with their skills with elbows and knees...

Personally, I'd rather be punched then decked with an elbow strike to the head.

gabbah

Sure, but I thought Ramon Dekker had showed the thais that boxing is important too.

polrat

Which instructionals are you referring to? I'm asking as lots of Thais are excellent boxers - some at world champion level. So, don't underestimate their boxing prowess.

Unless you knock the opponent out with your fists, chances are you'll lose a MT match. This is down to the way contests are scored in MT - knees, kicks and elbow techniques score better with the judges. Dekker's heavy hitting allowed him regular KOs.

gabbah

I was reffering to some of the instructional tapes I have downloaded and watched. One that I know the name of is from abanico productions, " I.A.M.T.F training program" from and with Chinawut Sirisompan (Master Woody). I watched this again and in all fairness it was the guy helping out that had the appearent flaw in his boxing, while he was going at the pads. He dropped his right hand every time he threw a left hook, leaving his chin totally exposed.
I also saw another instructional, where the head instructor was loading up on his uppercut while shadowboxing. I can't remember the name of this one though, and I can't find it again.
I just surprised me when I saw this at first, that an instructional would show these kind of beginner flaws in boxing. I mean that is basic stuff.

I have no doubt that many thaiboxers are good boxers. I was only talking about instructional tapes here.
But as you point out, boxing does not give many points in a muay thai match, so it's no wonder they put a lot more focus on knees, kicks and such in their training...

Abe

I also thought most thais were lacking in term of boxing skills, don't get me wrong, fighters like Coban and Jongsanan Fairtex are amazing in terms of boxing - Coban knocked down dekkers twice. Think is because they rely on little too much on their legs and grappling during bouts and i seen time and time again examples of that. Fighters like Buakaw, who hardly ever use his hands and grab on to the other if he's outboxed. Remember is not illegal in MT to hold.

gabbah

Yeah, Buakaw is really good at avoiding the boxing of others. What would happen if he trained his boxing skills up to the level of Kraus for instance? He would then have yet another tool to use against his opponents, making it harder for them to know what is coming next.
I mean he has excellent kicks, knees and clinch work, and probably elbows if he was allowed to use them (I have only seen him fight in K-1 world max). I think he should focus on his boxing now so that he can use it in the ring later.

But what you say is true, when you are allowed to grab on and clinch, it's really hard to land a boxing combination, as changing the distance is fast and easy to do. Either clich or back off.

Abe

Buakaw will be a great fighter if he does, but look at Yodsaenklai Fairtex, who beat aussie's best JWP recently. Yodsaenklai is like more powerful version of buakaw with hands - 20 yr olds and 200+ fights, the current Lumpinee Champ

check here

Buakaw is the "amazing two legs" and crafty, but i think there are still many better and somehow underrated thai fighters in thailand.

gabbah

By whom are they underrated?
I know about buakaw just because he fights in K-1 world max. I was in fact wondering why the other big names from lumpinee don't fight in K-1 as well. It is good money for them isn't it?
I would like to see Yodsaenklai and other big fighters fight.

Abe

Jomhod, Suriya (who beat Masato easily in a MT fight), and others who i can't remember right now.

See, when Buakaw first came in he cleaned in up, then came along the one knee per clinch rule therefore making in harder for most thai fighters who aren't great at boxing. It's a paranoid move by japan in fear of K-1 Max being dominated by thais IMO.

As why big names in Lumpinee don't fight in K-1, maybe because money isn't the first thing on their agenda. Being their local champ in a land full of fighters seem like higher honour?? Really don't know the true reason but i'd really love to see 2nd rate fighters like Kohi, Kozo and Kid Yamamoto out of K-1. They are just there because they are japanese.

gabbah

These fighters underestimate other thais? I'm confused.
Oh I didn't even know about that rule change. When did they change it? And I thought extensive clinching wasn't allowed in K-1 anyway?
Could be because of honor, but I would think money is important for a thai fighter, since he often provides his whole family with money from fights.

Abe

No I meant they are underrated by general fans compared to Buakaw.

Yea, but now only one knee can be thrown under per clinch, where beofre you could knee so many times as you want before ref breaks it up. Think they changed it in this year.

Don't know, but i know they are other championship which they can fight under with nice prizes. Or it could just be the K-1 authority's doing, after the Masato vs Buakaw bout, i've lost faith in them making fair and unbiased decisions.

gabbah

Yeah that Masato fight was a bit weird. Buakaw looked very surprised to have go an extra round. The judges are a bit biased... but they probably are in thailand as well.

Buakaw is popular because he has won K-1 world max. Those other guys haven't. I think it's that simple.
Jomhod will fight buakaw in february here in sweden, that will be awesome.

I think it sucks that they have changed the rules to only one knee per clinch.

polrat

Japanese judges are notorious for bias towards their countrymen.

Tinkering with the rules is dishonourable.

Abe

In thai fights? not near as much though.

that's awesome! nothing happens down here in aus, or at least sydney you going to watch?

yea, as polrat said as well, is dishonourable