gabbah

Sometimes we have been doing a drill that I think is useless, luckily we very seldom do it. Maybe I'm wrong and it's good, so please discuss it.
It's supposed to train your reaction to be fast.
The drill is that you have your back against you pad holder. When you hear the two pads slamming into eachother, you turn around as fast as possible, and watch the pad holder. He will be holding the pads for two punches, a left roundhouse or a right roundhouse. So you do the technique as fast as possible.
That's it.
I really can't see how this would train me for fighting. My opponent will not be behind me first of all, and second he will not be holding pads in a certain way to wich my brain can react with the most suitable technique.
In that case it would be much better if, when you turn around, you see your "opponent" leaving some openings which you will have to find as soon as possible, and throw the proper technique to hit that target.

So I find that drill useless, at least I believe it doesn't make me react faster in a fight like it's supposed to do. What do you guys think?

muaythaiguy15

Thats so stupid. I would hit my instructor in the face for doing that.

Khun Kao

So what you're saying is that when you fight, you never get turned around? That's pretty good. In all my fights in the ring, I've gotten myself turned around multiple times per fight, such as after missing a kick.

See what I'm saying?

The drill isn't useless. It might not be the best drill. There may be a better way. It would also be helpful if your coach would explain the reason for doing the drill. But the drill is not useless.

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Kru Brooks C. Miller
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http://khunkao.com/

eXcessiveForce

yup just sounds like a speed target acquisition drill.

we did one where you close your eyes and wait, eventually you will get blasted with a pad, you could then open your eyes, regain balance or get back to your feet, acquire the target and pound the hell out of it.


another is to close your eyes and spin, then when it is called out you have to open your eyes and hit the target. not easy when your balance is shot to hell. But ever been hit hard enough to make the room spin. It's more fun doing it this way then letting someone blast you in the head and trying to find the target.

__________________
eXcessiveFORCE.

If you must use force, make it excessive.

gabbah

I might get turn around from time to time when I miss a kick, but the drill doesn't mimic that very well.
To mimic that it would be way better to do high roundhouse kicks against pads, and sometimes the padholder will take away the pads before you hit, making you miss. And you have to kick full power.
In fact, that type of drills has worked wonders for my push kicks, now I don't get off balance if I miss a push kick as I used to before when I over commited.
To get back on topic, the purpose of that drill is supposedly to make me react faster. I just don't believe it trains me to react faster. The stimuli I am trained to react to are the way two thai pads are held. That has nothing to do with reacting to a REAL opening a guy might give you in a match. That's the thing that bugs me about that drill.
Sure, you might get SOMETHING out of it, but it doesn't train my reaction time. At least you do some pad training, but it's half as effective because we have to turn around all the time and wait for the clap.

Perhaps if the drill was more like eXcessiveForce described it would be more useful. But it's not.
Awaiting your response.

elliotNess

Sounds like a good multiple attack or ambush drill. I try to keep an open mind about any and everything in martial arts training.

GonzoStyles

the main purpose of this drill gabbah, is to get your footwork in right the position for left or right kick. when you turn around you have to adjust your stance to the pad opening so you can throw the round kick. does that make sense?

gabbah

Sure, it's ok for footwork. So it's not for reaction training then?

gabbah

Keeping an open mind is good. But after you have tried you need analyze what the drill is actually good for, and what the connection is to ring fight or real fight, depending on what you want.
This drill is not for ambush attacks, it's supposedly for kickboxning ring fight.

elliotNess

I've never been a ring fighter; that takes guts. Hats off. I would think, turining your back to someone would be good practice for a rear ambush.

gabbah

Sure, if it was a self defense class maybe that drill would be relevant. But it's supposedly for reaction time, and I still argue it's not very good for that. Footwork? Sure, a little.
For the ring it's not very relevant I think. Still waiting for good arguments against that. I would in fact be happy to discover that it is a good drill for ring fighting.

eXcessiveForce

it's all about hitting the target quickly after acquiring it. It would be better it they closed off the target after a brief period to make sure that you respond quickly.

In this case it is more about preception than reaction. How fast can you percieve where the target is and what you need to hit it with.

maybe not the best drill but I wouldn't say useless.

__________________
eXcessiveFORCE.

If you must use force, make it excessive.

gabbah

The problem is that in a fight, the target does not look like pads held in a certain way. The openings are way more subtle than that. It may be I notice he has a bit too much weight on his front leg: opening for a lowkick.
It may be his elbows are held way out: opening for a roundhouse to the midsection. And so on.
So you're training to react (and see openings) on PADS, which has very little to do with how the REAL openings look to a fighter.
Don't you agree with this?

eXcessiveForce

yeah I would agree, however, that would be stimulus response. I see a gap on him so I hit it.


This is I see a target and I recognize and hit it quickly. You are trying to speed up processing. precieve, select weapon, initiate action, hit target.


the pads should be held in areas that would be common targets though. Not just out in the middle of nowhere.

Neuro-muscular conditioning.

__________________
eXcessiveFORCE.

If you must use force, make it excessive.

gabbah

Umm... it seems we agree that the pads don't give the right stimuli, so you can't train to react faster to an opening a fighter would give you in a ring fight.
I don't see how your logic works...

Let's see:
In the drill, I turn around an see the pads at waist level, so I kick there as fast as I can. Fine, I do this over and over until I'm a master at reacting to where pads are held and kicking them fast as hell.
Then the match comes, and it's fight time. My opponent is not holding pads, he has gloves. However, his left elbow is left pretty high after his jab, so there's an opening there. However, I can't react fast to it, because it's not the stimuli I have practiced with
Simply put, openings do not look like thai pads, so how can I learn to react fast with that drill, that doesn't use the correct stimuli to begin with?