Everyone is wearing Thai trunks.

**47MartialMan** · 10-12-2006 08:41 AM

Yes. Amercians have to attach a value to something. Earning trunks sound just as silly as color belt ranking in Kung Fu

**Khun Kao** · 10-12-2006 08:59 AM

From what I've experienced, "YES", it's an American thing. But hey, thats very smart marketing. To your hardcore MuayThai guys, it seems silly. I used to think it was silly. But remember that most people who train in the art of MuayThai internationally are not doing it because they want to step into the ring and compete. They are doing it because they want to exercise while learning a cool martial art. But to keep these people interested in training, you have to offer some kind of incentive to continually put themselves through the rigors of MT training (even if its toned down, MT is still more rigorous than most other martial art workouts).

Think about it, for those of us who are fighters, the experience of stepping into the ring and fighting IS our incentive! But most people simply aren't interested in doing that, or for a variety of reasons are unable to. So they need some other tangible goal so that they will want to keep coming back.

"Oooh! In another two months, I'll have the opportunity to earn those cool Thai shorts!"

That's a strong incentive and a brilliant marketing tool!

**WhiteTiger** · 10-12-2006 12:16 PM

maby that. But I think that is just braking down the art if you intruduce this and that. What will Muay Thai be in America 10 years from now. If thay intruduce there own things. Call it somthing else then Muay Thai.
muay Thai is the name of the art. If you whary the art and do this and that. It isent the original art anymore. Then you can change name on it.
And if ppl dont like the core muay thai, then lok for another art. I dont mean you have to fight in the ring. But I think the training shuld be original in the thai stile.
then its Muay Thai. Else its just some bunch och punches and kicks that are labaled as Muay Thai.

But thats just my opinion. Everyone gott there own opinion about it. I dont whana start a fuss here.

**Khun Kao** · 10-12-2006 12:54 PM

No one ever said that the art itself was being changed.

**WhiteTiger** · 10-12-2006 02:17 PM

yeah I know. But the howl thing looks like it. Beginning with the trunks. Then next on its somthing else. It dosent feel right to me thats all^^

**cowpaste** · 10-13-2006 10:01 AM

I really don't like the idea of people sticking with Muay Thai just because they might "rank up" soon.

It's a good commercial incentive, that's true, but it's a wrong attitude in my opinion. Sadly, it might be necessary to be commerically successful. American Muay Thai schools that closely mimiced training in Thailand would be great of course, but I'm afraid it would scare away most people.

The thing is, modern day Muay Thai is very much a fighting sport and not "martial artsy." Have you ever heard of rankings for good ol' boxing? A more martial artsy version of Muay Thai would be Muay Boran or something, and I feel a ranking system would be more appropriate in that case.

**Rickster** · 10-13-2006 10:13 AM

Originally Posted by cowpaste

I really don't like the idea of people sticking with Muay Thai just because they might "rank up" soon.

It's a good commercial incentive, that's true, but it's a wrong attitude in my opinion. Sadly, it might be necessary to be commerically successful. American Muay Thai schools that closely mimiced training in Thailand would be great of course, but I'm afraid it would scare away most people.

The thing is, modern day Muay Thai is very much a fighting sport and not "martial artsy." Have you ever heard of rankings for good ol' boxing? A more martial artsy version of Muay Thai would be Muay Boran or something, and I feel a ranking system would be more appropriate in that case.

The rank becomes an incentive whereas the practice alone should be.

There are rankings in good ol' boxing. These are not for inter-gym advancement.

Also. ranking per incentive, were not in most martial arts. And the word martial artsy....is incorrect.....martial arts is any system or method of fighting. (Most dictionaries have it incorrect suggesting it is indigenous to "Oriental or Asian")

**WhiteTiger** · 10-13-2006 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by cowpaste

I really don't like the idea of people sticking with Muay Thai just because they might "rank up" soon.

It's a good commercial incentive, that's true, but it's a wrong attitude in my opinion. Sadly, it might be necessary to be commerically successful. American Muay Thai schools that closely mimiced training in Thailand would be great of course, but I'm afraid it would scare away most people.

The thing is, modern day Muay Thai is very much a fighting sport and not "martial artsy." Have you ever heard of rankings for good ol' boxing? A more martial artsy version of Muay Thai would be Muay Boran or something, and I feel a ranking system would be more appropriate in that case.

I agree to this. But if you are scared away of the Thai method of traingin. Then thay dont belong there. thay can have speciall classes for these peaple.
But just the ide to do it this why and change its sounds in my mind like, "hey lets take Thailands national sport and do it the american way and let peaple think that there actuly training muay thai. and that its like this in Thailand that you have to eranr youre trunks and there are ranking in it"
And I cant go allong that Ide. It just sounds wrong.

**Rickster** · 10-13-2006 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

I agree to this. But if you are scared away of the Thai method of traingin. Then thay dont belong there. thay can have speciall classes for these peaple.
But just the ide to do it this why and change its sounds in my mind like, "hey lets take Thailands national sport and do it the american way and let peaple think that there actuly training muay thai. and that its like this in Thailand that you have to eranr youre trunks and there are ranking in it"
And I cant go allong that Ide. It just sounds wrong.

As wrong as it may be, no martial art is immune to commercialism and politics.

BTW- what is IDE?

**Python** · 10-13-2006 01:37 PM

I don't think having a "ranking' system or structure of some sort diminishes the art or makes it a watered down system, nor is it "wrong". There are many Muay Thai Champions and trainers here in the states who place a ranking system within their classes, and they are not "selling out" nor are they "changing" Muay Thai. While I have most recently taken out the "earning of shorts" with my student level one test, it is only because my fight team has grown and is in different cities and I am not able to always "test" a person before he or she fights, so they have team shorts to fight in. BUT, with that said here is why my first instructor required students to earn their shorts: (this is how i understand his reasoning)

He had the name of their club on the shorts on one leg or the other or on the waist band...there was a couple students who had taken his class and of course bought shorts on the internet right away. They took class for maybe 10 hours (only 10 hours of instruction). And then went off on their own claiming to teach Muay Thai and wearing his club logo or name. Well that makes the teacher look bad as well, and raises questions. Since then the students earn their first pair of shorts. I am not sure this story is completely accurate with times and such, but you get the idea anyway, right? I have also experienced this but put a stop to it immediately.

My students who have earned their shorts in the past actually "like" having to earn them, it brings a whole new level of respect to the training for some of them. Remember, this is not Thailand! BUT, that doesn't mean we are bastardizing the art. I guarantee I am not! Our training is top notch and right in line with the T.B.A. standards and guidelines.

Having the students "earn" their shorts in NO WAY means the Muay Thai being taught is wrong. If you really believe so, make a trip to Iowa and join in one of the classes and meet the students and notice the level of respect , discipline, and skill, and then make an educated analysis. My doors are always open and you are always welcome.

**47MartialMan** · 10-13-2006 02:16 PM

Great response

**sportmuaythai** · 10-13-2006 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by Python

My students who have earned their shorts in the past actually "like" having to earn them, it brings a whole new level of respect to the training for some of them. Remember, this is not Thailand!

Very well said, because if it were in Thailand, I'll bet these students would blush from snickers and jeers. BTW do you charge for testing? Also, are these coloured shorts more expensive than normal? It's my personal view that the trainer is not capable of making his training interesting and productive enough, so he has to resort to commercial gimmicks as incentive to retain his students

.

**kuk sool won** · 10-13-2006 05:14 PM

who cares, if what they teach works, then why complain?

**Khun Kao** · 10-13-2006 08:45 PM

Originally Posted by sportmuaythai

Very well said, because if it were in Thailand, I'll bet these students would blush from snickers and jeers. BTW do you charge for testing? Also, are these coloured shorts more expensive than normal? It's my personal view that the trainer is not capable of making his training interesting and productive enough, so he has to resort to commercial gimmicks as incentive to retain his students

.

Difference in cultures. In Thailand, MuayThai is a job. Outside of Thailand, its a recreation. Two entirely different mindsets, therefore two entirely different approaches to training.

Seriously, in Thailand fighters know if they don't train and fight, they don't eat. (yes, I realize this is an overly generalized statement) THAT is the incentive to train! Outside of Thailand, "commercial gimmicks" (as you put it) are a necessary part of martial arts. Without those gimmicks to dangle in front of their noses, why the hell would they put themselves through the rough and tumble training that MuayThai offers? They could take up ballroom dancing instead!

Whether you view it as a good thing or a bad thing, it is what it is.

**47MartialMan** · 10-13-2006 10:14 PM

Can American MT beat Thai Mt? Does Thai MT suquare off combatants according to size and weight?

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