Damian Mavis

2 things.

JULES, I owe you an apology, TENNUH IS A THAI WORD. It is the english word trainer of course but it is in fact widely used now as a Thai word pronounced TenNUH and like MANY modern Thai words it came from english but is now thought of as Thai. Many Thai camps do use the word tennuh to refer to the trainer and Ajarn for the head instructor that doesnt usually actually hold pads but teaches verbally. In Tae Kwon Do they have been known to use the word coat to refer to coach.

SPORTMUAYTHAI, did you think I was just guessing here from my computer room in Canada? Im in Bangkok sitting in a room with 5 Thai people RIGHT NOW. heh. They say you're as informed as the next Thai person because most people have no idea where the word FIE came from. Even you admitted that since you say you are not sure either. The concensus amongst most Thais is it comes from the english word fire. I have no idea why you are talking about the origins of fire and mentioning Julius Ceasar though.....

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD Thailand

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sportmuaythai

Dear Domian, I mentioned Julius Caesar to point out that the English didn't know how to use fire before they were invaded by Romans. I know for certain that Thai word fie doesn't come from the word fire. Did you know that "shampoo" wasn't originally an English word? BTW how educated are the Thais you associate with? We don't simply call the trafic lights fie daeng. It's sanyaan fie kiew fie daeng. If your Thai friends insist that they are called just fie daeng, then it's because they were brought up where Thai language is not properly spoken.
This is why I requested you not to use example of Thai language. You are encouraging wrong use of the word Ajarn. Please refer to my previous post on this thread. It's kru muay and not Ajarn muay, despite what the Thais you mingle with say. Cockney may be English, but proper spoken English is not cockney. It's Oxford English.

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sportmuaythai

Most Thais welcome foreigners studying muaythai. They would like muaythai to become world heritage. Only a few, particularly the muay boran of Chaiya stream prefer to retain their art among Thais. Recently they have begun to open up to foreign students. I believe it's the financial rewards that changed their attitude. About watering down, if it's correct form, then I think that Thais don't mind. It's when some karate guy posing as a muaythai instructor with a different form that irks Thais. BTW I posted reply yesterday, but there was a hang up in the internet.

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OctaviousBP

ไฟสัญญาณจราจร = traffic light (fairly formal). I think the term sportmuaythai used is still colloquial. This thread has woefully derailed, but who am I to try and right it?

When speaking of a green light, I use, and hear Thais say, "Fai Khiaao". When speaking of a red light "Fai Daaeng". When lights in general "Fai Khiaao fai daaeng". I don't hear the Thais use สัญญาณ = signal, but I think, now in retrospect, that that might either just be for my benefit, or that my ear doesn't pick it up yet. "Green fire red fire" is pretty easy for me, so why complicate things?

As far as the English not knowing how to use fire before the 1st century BCE, maybe I'm not understanding the term "use" properly, but humans have had fire for close to a million years. Are the English that slow?

I train at a very small, modest, camp. I have a trainer who also owns the camp, whom I call Khruu. He holds my pads and does not speak a word of English. A second, older man helps teach as well. He walks around and corrects the fighters. He speaks English, and helps translate. He is in his 60's and does not hold pads anymore. I call him Ajarn. Not because it is the proper boxing terminology for his position, but to show him as much respect as I can. This is similar to the arrangement that Damian mentioned.

Out of curiosity, and sportmuaythai could answer this I think, what do Thais call Ajarn Apidej at Fairtex? Is it just Khruu Apidej, or maybe Khruu yai, or perhaps no formal title at all? Again, I apply the term Ajarn to denote as much respect as possible. I would be interested to know if there is a better way to address a teacher with an increased level of respect.

Finally, in terms of shorts and testing... I would echo what Bryan had to say, that it is the individual that is important, not the shorts.

If a gym in the West (or anywhere for that matter) tests its students for shorts, or uses them to denote rank, so be it. As long as they aren't charging for this testing, I have no problem with it. It would be nice if an appreciation for context accompanied the rank, as in "This purple shorts/praciat test has virtually no meaning outside of these walls, or organization", that would be great.

For my personal experience in shorts tests with my TBA school, I always viewed them as a means to guage a student's heart in a controlled circumstance that comes fairly close to simulating an amateur match. Testing for shorts is by no means a necessary step in training at my old gym. I believe we had only 3 shorts tests the whole year last year. However, those that test usually do so in anticipation of their first amateur bout.

In the past I have discussed my views of Muay Thai as being a dynamic sport, so I won't get in to that again, but my question would be "who gets to decide what the "real" Muay Thai is? Who gets to pinpoint the specific characteristics that either include or exclude practitioners from partaking in "authentic" Muay Thai? Can someone be considered a nak muay if they have never performed the initial wai khruu to gain acceptance into a camp? Do any camps still do this? Most would say that a fighter is one who fights, so what's the difference if said fighter tested for shorts? If someone comes up to you in a bar and says "Hey, I have my green Thai shorts" would it irk you so much that you would have to say something, other than "congratulations"?

This turned into a huge jumbled rant, for which I apologize. It's amazing what a morning cup of coffee can do...

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sportmuaythai

I agree that recent posts have deviated from original thread. After this post, I'll refrain from posting matters not pertinent to the thread. While your intention was good, I feel that you misused the word Ajarn. Kru muay would have been perfectly acceptable. A kru should have modesty as his virtue, and you should not tempt him. I'd call the trainer "kru fuek" (ครูฝึก).
Regarding Abhidej, I call him simply kru Abhidej. I feel that Thais value the way you treat them more than the title you address them.

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Damian Mavis

I associate with all walks of life, my friends are superstars, millionaires and even some royal family, my employees and students range from poor ex thai boxers to university students and business men. But of course there are many poor uneducated Thai people I have to interact with every day to buy food and take taxis and I use the lingo they will understand for my own convenience instead of getting blank stares or "ALLAY NA?!".

I think the big problem sportmuaythai is that the Thai language is changing very fast. You talk bout PROPER thai terminology but if millions of Thais are using the words in the wrong context is it really so wrong anymore? Thai boxers told me the terms TENNUH for pad holders and AJARN for head instructor. If they are wrong well.. they are all doing it.

This is just my friends experience: He's lived here 9 years and speaks impecable Thai, he's what you would refer to as anal in his efforts to be perfect in his language skills. He does not suffer imperfection from himself and as a result Thai people argue with him all he time that he was born here when he was not. He just lets them believe what they want to believe. Anyway, over the years he's witnessed a huge change in the Bangkok language. He no longer understands fully what people are saying in the local Starbucks when he overhears educated business people talking trade. The reason he doesn't fully understand anymore is because they are speaking 50% Thai and 50% english mispronounced. These are smart people, not uneducated farmers. But modern Thai seems to be adding more and more bastardized english words all the time and usually in the wrong context but once it catches on it sticks. This is just his experience. I see it too but on a much smaller scale since I don't speak very much Thai.

Japan has been doing this for a while now, many words I hear my Japanese students use and the Japanese TV shows my girlfriend makes me watch are mispronounced english words with a vowel added on the end.

My point is... the Thai language is changing and it's kind of hard to talk about proper Thai when in 100 years there might be a completely different Thai language.

I don't think it's so bad that we changed topics a bit... how much can we say about shorts testings? heh

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD Thailand

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jules

what do you think about this camp? Do you know anything about it?
http://www.tigermuaythai.com

me and my friend want to thailand to train some muay thai and if possilbe also bjj.

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http://www.ko-bus.com/main.html

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