Ghost

you know what mate, we need more questions on this forum, if you just fill the whole damn thai section up with anything and everything you want to know. gives us something to post on and keeps the forum going. Believe it or not we actually like answering questions!


Fire cobra, mate if I can do once a day at 50 ill be pleased too.
My personal feeling is that it might be more productive to have a run and functional strength training ie ross boxing style stuff in the morning as opposed to doing and actual thai boxing training.
Would be interesting to see how that worked out in thailand, id be interested to see the boxers fight with another 4kg or so of functional muscle on them.
any thoughts on this?

__________________
Skills: Numchuck skills, bow hunting skills, computer hacking skills.
Favourite animal: Liger, bred for its skills in magic.

“Anyone can give up, it's the easiest thing in the world to do. But to hold it together when everyone else would understand if you fell apart, that's true strength.”

John McCain promo vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWS-F...eature=related

twtguy

good to know! ill be taking you up on that offer as much as i can.

fire cobra

"Lemonade out of lemons" i like that one!.

Keep the questions coming brother,makes us think which is only a good thing for our learning or re-learning to.

I for one do not know it all but with help from others(Ghost for sure)on here i think we probably could cover most things for you.

fire cobra

Thanks Ghost,

To be honest ive never really looked into the Ross methods(i will now) and ive never give any thought to how the Thai boys would function with more muscle.

I have however gave thought to the way they de-hydrate so much,and often think if they cut down on there 2x daily training would it make a big difference?,i think the answers i have come up with is that because they retire young(in the main) they can get away with the de-hydration thing without long term damage,on the training regime perhaps its because what else would they do? training keeps them in the gym,as you well know most camps are like big families,the young up and coming boxers dont drink,smoke(most of em!) or fornicate,wheras if they had more free time perhaps they may be more prone to these and other things,im not saying these thoughts are correct,just my humble opinions at the moment.

The big thing i like about Martial arts training is the technical aspects,ive never been into MA for the fitness,im not lazy its just the tecnical movements and strategys fascinate me.

As ive gotten older i have had a lot more injurys than i ever had,and it seems the harder i train the more it happens,very frustrating!,im now at the point where im thinking 10 years ahead to when im 60(bloody hell!) we have only got one body to go with us into older age so i dont want anything i do now to affect me adversily in the future,so i am looking to nutrition and perhaps to weight training for protection and prevention of injurys,i realise that may bring its own problems so im just at the research stage,any thoughts?.

Ghost

I think the dehydration thing is just a bad idea personally, if they just all agreed to weigh in at a higher weight it would all be solved and they wouldnt have to do it. I personally wont do it, which is seen as odd but i know i wont rehydrate in time and i know it will affect my performance.
Clone yourself, one of you has to dehydrate, the other doesnt, obvious who has the advantage, thats my take on it.

On to training twice a day, your points are good and i think you are right that would happen, what i mean more is that you could have 2 training sessions a day but not both thai boxing.
It has been my thought for some time now that if the morning was a run followed by some really good quality strength training, you could for instance be more body part specific on each day, or at least have a slight focus to avoid over training. I think theyd be even more powerful for it.
I feel its suffering slightly from a "this is how we do it" mentality, though im not sure my idea is better but it is near to what i do at the moment, i do functional training in the morning and do the bare minimum to get by that i can in terms of padwork etc in the morning which is usually a few rounds on the pads and a few on the bag. Id rather do no pad or bag work in the morning as i think it would be more productive.
The result for me has been more intense training in the afternoon and strength gains. Results from one person are inconclusive though.

As for yourself, well personally as soon as i stop fighting im going to move far more strongly into bodybuilding but maintain as much thai boxing as i can at the same time. IMO addint muscle gives protection and if im not training like a fighter any more id like to build more muscle.
Nutritionally i pay alot of attention, i think is THE BIG thing that martial artists screw up on. Nutrition makes a huge difference to your bodies recovery and performance abilites.
I pay strict attention to the type of carbohydrates i eat, my room is stocked with oats, all bran and weetabix, i pay attention to the protein i eat, i regularly buy extra chicken and beef when i can find it. Fat wise i have omega 3 caps of the highest qualit, i eat alot of nuts. Micro nutrient wise i eat alot of fruit and veg. Im careful to time carbs around training and get adequate protein and carbs after training to recover, no waiting around for an hour for the camp food to be ready.
Overall i eat more than the thais do, partly cos im larger and partly to get the nutrition. I have my own wake up meal of oats and whey, i eat fruit in the daytime after the camp meal, i have a pre training carb meal 1.5 hours before afternoon training, dextrose powder in water during training,i have oats and whey with dextrose after training and then the camp meal and i have whey and fat and a small amount of carbs pre bed to keep my body in repair mode.
I think its the real missing link in martial arts and has made an absolutely huge difference to my training since i started paying attetion to nutrition.

I dont really think 50 is that old at all but obviously it takes longer to recover, id personally move more towards weight training in order to prevent injury and feel good. Id also keep the cardio up but lower the stuff thats going to cause injury. Cant say much more than that though as i dont have experience of being that age yet.
Out of interest can you keep up with the younger lads in the gym?

i also wanted to add in that the strategy and technical side also interests me infinitely more than simply the fitness side.

__________________
Skills: Numchuck skills, bow hunting skills, computer hacking skills.
Favourite animal: Liger, bred for its skills in magic.

“Anyone can give up, it's the easiest thing in the world to do. But to hold it together when everyone else would understand if you fell apart, that's true strength.”

John McCain promo vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWS-F...eature=related

fire cobra

Absolutly a cracking post that one sir!.

Im in agreement with you about the nutrition part,though my knowledge is limeted im taking the time to learn.

About 3 years ago i had a bad shoulder injury that i didnt get looked at just thought rest would do it,it didnt and was still there after 2 years,made me change my kicking style,punching style everything really
Any way i had bought some protein powder from a friend and never used it,one day i was ill with a flu and couldnt eat,i asked my friend if it would be ok to take the protien when not eating(he is a body builder) he said it is more important to take it.
So i took 50grams of protien every 3 hours or so,
after 3 weeks of the flu and taking the protien guess what? my shoulder was 75 percent better! couldnt belive it!,so that was it i started on my nutrition quest!.

Now im thinking about the weight training programme to help keep away from injuries as i want to train into my old(er) age,i havent been this age before either but im learning fast what its like!.

As far as keeping up with the younger guys in the gym goes,when sparring my experience of staying relaxed and focusing on breathing helps,pad work i dont try to compete with them but i can knock 5x5s out well enough.

I have to say her that i have a 64 year old guy im my gym named Vic that can do anything fitness wise that the young ens can! he is a insperation to me.

I do find that there is a big difference in finding out what you can do as opposed to what you need to do if you see what i mean Ghost? i prefer to find out how much i need to do most of the time,and challenge myself with how much i can do from time to time.

Its good that you are sticking to your own way on the de-hydration,Thai Boxing in the 1960s(my fav era) the boxers didnt de-hydrate as they do nowadays.

How old are you out of curiosity Ghost? you certainly seem to have a older head on your shoulders.

Thanks for the advice on your post.

All the very best for Kritamass brother,have a saengsom for me.

Peace.

Ghost

if you can still do 5X5 thats really impressive, and what would that 64 year old have been like at 24!
I know exactly what you mean mate about finding what you need to do and what you can do. on nutrition the protein intake certainly makes a big difference when it comes to recovery, i try to mix up my protein sources as much as possible and top up with whey as well, i dont go for bodybuilders levels of protein but a good 160g a day is a rough target for me.

Im 30 years old mate, came into thaiboxing and western boxing at about 20 or so. ive trained consistently but only in the last few years turned to fighting, before i was too bogged down in work to push my fitness enough and give a definite enough commitment to my trainer,but i trained solidly. Ive also had private lessons every week the whole time, which has made a world of difference for me and has been where i really learned things in detail.
What amazes me with muay thai is how essentially simple it is, yet its so detailed. In the same way i guess chess is a basic set of rules with real depth.
Thai boxing is a simple set of techniques with a large number of variations, just like when we were talking about round kicks earlier, you could say yeah we have round kick in thai boxing, but the depth to which we have it is something else. then if you start to analyze all the possible footwork, feints etc that can go just with each kick and suddenly you have something thats growing exponentially and to me becomes really interesting. You can then go through each basic technique and see more
waffle on:
teep...to push the opponent or stab at them in out to cause pain, the pecking style teep with the toes that hurts so much more than it really should do,foot angle of attack, short range teep, round teep(ie starts as a round kick turns into teep) side teep coming up at a slightly sideways angle across the body almost like a cross shin block then turning into a straight teep, all the different targets for the teep, footwork for teep, stepping back with lead leg and then teeping with your previous lead leg, footswitch and teep, stepping off to the side and teeping diagonally across to opponent etc just off the top of my head i could go on! lol but analyzing these things in detail and trying to use them in sparring makes thai boxing endlessly interesting to me.
waffle off

did you train at many different gyms in the uk or did you find the right one quickly? i personally went through 3 gyms before i found the right one for me. First one was just too far away and was simply the first one i found, the second was close but instructor and the intructor passed me on to his instructor who i am still with now when i am in the UK.

__________________
Skills: Numchuck skills, bow hunting skills, computer hacking skills.
Favourite animal: Liger, bred for its skills in magic.

“Anyone can give up, it's the easiest thing in the world to do. But to hold it together when everyone else would understand if you fell apart, that's true strength.”

John McCain promo vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWS-F...eature=related

fire cobra

He he,yeah so simple but not so easy this game!.

Just this morning during sparring with a inexperienced partner i was trying Viroon hok klab(foot stop on thigh) against my partners round kicks,and trying the best time to use a round kick across the middle of my partners body.

I started Muay Thai in 1982(after a couple years KickBoxing) with a Thai instructor in the UK then changed to another Thai instructor in the UK 1988,my second instructor taught a radically different method to my first instructor and it took a while to understand why,they are both different methods but equally as good.

I started the 1st Muay Thai camp in North east Uk in 1985,my second teacher went back to Thailand around 1992 so i went there to train with him,fell in love with the people,the culture etc,and have visited 20 times and spent 2.5 years there in total,the longest stay being 7 months.

Im coming over again in March 2008 for 2 months,will you still be there? buy you a chang and some noodles if you are mate(good nutrition eh!).

Wher in the UK are you from Ghost?.

Ghost

that would be cool i hope to be in nongkee by then but i have no worries about travelling down.
would be nice to meet, i actually know who as im pretty aware of the uk thai boxing circuit, you are but obviously you wont know me lol.
Im from london.

__________________
Skills: Numchuck skills, bow hunting skills, computer hacking skills.
Favourite animal: Liger, bred for its skills in magic.

“Anyone can give up, it's the easiest thing in the world to do. But to hold it together when everyone else would understand if you fell apart, that's true strength.”

John McCain promo vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWS-F...eature=related

fire cobra

Nice one Brother,

Im starting in Hua Hin for a few days then Lopburi/BKK then Sukothai,Chiang Mai and at some point over to Trang,as usual though my plans will change!.

Now im off to the gym,its freezing cold in there!

Later bro.

the tick

Just do it as Rob Kaman expains it in this video.
Rob Kaman