DonKey

I stopped training in muay thai for a few weeks and went back again today to find that I'm a bit better at kicking and my shins are better conditioned as well.

Has anyone else seen benefit from taking a break before?

Mike Brewer

I once took a break after training with Vunak and in Dan Inosanto's classes. The pace of that period of time was roughly between 5 and 14 hours of training a day without any breaks at all, seven days a week. (By "without breaks," I mean no days off, not "no breaks during the day")

When I moved, I spent about a week just packing, moving, and unpacking, and I found that the rest allowed me to heal and recoup after two solid years of killing myself day in and day out. In all honesty, I felt like Superman. I did everything smoother, faster, with more power, and with far, far better timing.

Of course, taking a break from my routine these days just makes the "edge" rusty. I don't torture myself anymore, and my pace is far more laid back.

Ghost

this is the thing, i found the same in thailand.

Its a sad fact that martial artists still dont know how to train and do rediculously long training sessions.
I think the dutch have got it right personally.

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Skills: Numchuck skills, bow hunting skills, computer hacking skills.
Favourite animal: Liger, bred for its skills in magic.

“Anyone can give up, it's the easiest thing in the world to do. But to hold it together when everyone else would understand if you fell apart, that's true strength.”

OctaviousBP

I had my longest taper before a fight ever recently. Almost a week. It felt great... although my camp thought I was just being lazy.

I seldom train more than 2 1/2 hours a day (runs inclusive), 5 days a week, and it works just fine for me. Rest is good - listen to your body... train smart.

Ghost

yes thats more like, if you are training hard its not possible to do more than that really anyway.

I think martial artists are stuck in the stone age when it comes to understanding the human body and training methods used.

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Skills: Numchuck skills, bow hunting skills, computer hacking skills.
Favourite animal: Liger, bred for its skills in magic.

“Anyone can give up, it's the easiest thing in the world to do. But to hold it together when everyone else would understand if you fell apart, that's true strength.”

Michael Wright

Great topic.

I trained 5 to 6 days a week, for about 10 years. I was so anal about training that I would get massive guilt trips if I missed a session, a class, a seminar etc. I did this training, and all of my teaching, on top of a very busy and accountable job. I was also utterly hopeless at resting, sleeping, eating the right diet, and generally switching off.

Over the course of last year everyone around me kept telling me that I wasn’t looking well, I looked tired, I looked thin, and they were worried about me. I kept telling them I was in great shape, how could I not be well with all the training I was doing. I then found out that there is a huge difference between being fit, and being healthy.

At the start of this year I thought I had just caught flu, and ignored it, until I collapsed and ended up in hospital. My body was so worn down I caught a viral infection and didn’t have the strength to fight it, it nearly killed me. My white blood cell and platelet count dropped so low that I was being fed on drips, on oxygen, and in a bad way. It was my body’s way of saying – enough.

Since I came out of hospital I have changed the way I approach my training, and my life. I now train 3 days a week, and that’s it. If that means I ain’t gonna be the next world champ or the next Paul Vunak then that’s tough, there is more to life than martial arts. I sleep more, I eat more, I rest more and I try to keep things more in balance. The irony is, when I do train, I feel like a different person. More energy, more strength, more stamina, more relaxed, and I’m enjoying it so much more.

Ghost is absolutely right, martial artists can be the most naïve athletes in the game and sometimes, like me, its only when you get hit with a very hard reality that you finally change.

l0rca

What do the Dutch do?

Michael Wright

smoke.....eat mushrooms.....drink coffee.....watch porn......

l0rca

Well, I suppose if we all did that, there'd be no reason to defend ourselves!

eXcessiveForce

Yup it has happened to me several times.

In fact it's been dramatic enough at times for others to really take notice.

I love it when I leave for a trip and am gone for a week or two, and when I come back, my training partners always thing they are going to catch me rusty.

Surprise, that not generally what they get.

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If you must use force, make it excessive.

Ghost

IMO you will do far better on 3 days of balls to the wall training than you will trianing 5-7 days a week.
Recovery is so important. I spend quite a bit of time reading training manuals for other sports, american football, sprinting, endurance running, bodybuilding etc
They are packed full of science. They have many things in common. One of them being rest and the benefits.
I think the world of weightlifting has the nicest saying "you grow when you rest"
This is very true, in fact if you look in more detail, central nervous system function which affects things like improving technique, improve whilst resting.

I have a real hatred of the twice daily training routine in thailand. IMO they are wasting a hell of a lot of time and if you compare how dutch thai boxers train compared to how thais train then its not hard to see why the dutch have managed to send fighters over that knock thais out left right and center. Do they have better technique in holland? No, maybe they have better boxing, but was is noticeable is that they are much ,much stronger and these days fitter too.
They employ weight training, body weight training, one boxing session only, they separate what they do to different days of the week. one day is padwork, one day drilling techniques, one day sparring.
PLus their diets are better.
Thais have more technique, no doubt and its good training there for that, but i wouldnt train the way they do for fighting as i know i can do better.

In the UK i would train 4 days a week.2 on, 1 off, 2 on, 2 off.
If you imagine someone training monday and tuesday then resting wednesday and then traiing again on the thursday, its even bloody obvious the guy that rested wednesday is going to be able to train harder on the thursday. If you can train harder you get more out of it. Its common sense. More isnt always more.
I actually consider rest and diet to be part of my training. I take a rest day as seriously as a training day because as they say, "when you rest you grow"

EDIT: glad you are better now michael, you told me about this before but it sounds just horrible. Would have been a real shame had we lost you.
Now get back in the gym grrr.

__________________
Skills: Numchuck skills, bow hunting skills, computer hacking skills.
Favourite animal: Liger, bred for its skills in magic.

“Anyone can give up, it's the easiest thing in the world to do. But to hold it together when everyone else would understand if you fell apart, that's true strength.”

Tee Sok

Same here, I focused most of my energy into training, eating the right food and so on for a long time, until I was too tired at the end that I didn't have time and energy for much else. My health got worse too at a certain pointalso because of this (doctor said), and without wanting to go off topic, I think that Bruce Lee's incredibly strict and tough training routine had a part in his departure. By that I mean that his body didn't have enough resources (like Michael said) to recover and fight the allergic reaction he had.

fire cobra

Ghost,

Who are the fighters from Holand that go to Thailand and KO Thais left right and centre? Ramon Decker is the most succesfull Dutch fighter to do that in recent years,the French have had much better sucess than the Dutch in Thailand,also the Mejiro and the Chakuri gyms both train (or used to train) 2 x per day).

Ghost

ok, i wasnt aware of them every training twice a day. As far as i know its been once a day always.
The French have done well, so have the dutch, i dont have a list of fighters. Just at many shows ive been to ive seen dutch and british and french fighters for that matter stepping in the ring and doing the business on many occasions. The dutch stood out for me, and im half dutch myself but thats besides the point

My personal opinion is that morning runs are great and doing weights or some functional strenght training in the morning is great and then doing boxing/thai boxing in the evening. 2 sessions of thai boxing a day is not worth it.

Quite frankly i think i could take a thai and train him in functional strength and stamina in the morning and then send him to a thai boxing camp in the evening and hes smash the hell out of the guys he would have fought normally simply because hes made better use of his training time. I would of course use far more rest periods as well. 3 days off a week or so with a better eating plan. Of course he wouldnt fit in thier weight classes. but thats really my point too. Why would you want to fit into their 55kg or there abouts weight classes when you could be 65kg and ripped.
Competition for competitions sake is where boxing and thai boxing CAN fall down. I think we should be producing the best fighters. If that means they fight in a higher weight category then i think thats a good thing.

Hope that makes sense.

__________________
Skills: Numchuck skills, bow hunting skills, computer hacking skills.
Favourite animal: Liger, bred for its skills in magic.

“Anyone can give up, it's the easiest thing in the world to do. But to hold it together when everyone else would understand if you fell apart, that's true strength.”

Michael Wright

Great post, pos rep

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"Debate is an exchange of ideas - not a constant refusal to acknowledge them"
Mike Brewer