Heroic Wolf

Hi everyone I have always wondered how useful the muay thai shin kick is in real life with the added dimension of shoes being worn since the shin kick is my most extensively used kick. My opinion right now is that the taekwondo version of the roundhouse kick (where the foot is used to strike the opponent) is probably more useful with shoes on since the added mass of the shoe makes the foot no less powerful than a shin would be but allows the kicker to strike from a further distance. Also, the taekwondo-roundhouse kick is thrown from a chambered position that minimizes the effect of a shoe weighing the leg down and slowing kick momentum. The muay thai-roundhouse is swung up from the ground, so could the hip rotation required for a solid muay thai-roundhouse kick be limited by the weight of the shoe?

bodhisattva

you sound like a Tae Kwon Do (not so craftily) trolling here.

However, I'll point out that only a guy who has never RECEIVED both a Muay Thai round kick AND a Tae Kwon Do round kick would say something like that.

Getting hit with a well-thrown thai round kick is like getting hit with a baseball bat.

Getting hit with a tae kwon do round kick is like getting hit with a piece of light rattan.

No comparison.

the weight of the shoe? What are you wearing, concrete shoes? Shoes are l i g h t. They don't effect your kicks so much. And they effect thai style kicks MUCH LESS than snappy tae kwon do style kicks.

So I'm kind of lost here.

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Heroic Wolf

Ya, ur right. I've never been hit hard by a truly hard muay thai kick before, just high-quality taekwondo kicks. I guess wut I was wondering was whether I should still throw muay thai kicks that strike with my shin if I get in a fight where I have my shoes on as I'm concerned the shoe will slow my kick down or weigh my leg down so the force transfer isn't clean. Or maybe I should just convince my instructor to let me practice kicking the heavy bags with clean shoes on (he doesn't like getting the mats dirty) Also, I guess I wanted to know if I should throw roundhouse kicks with the muay thai-body rotation but striking with the shoe and not the shin as that would make use of the shoe on my foot and increase the range I can strike from

Little Apple

Well, we train outside in the parks in the summer, and we generally do wear shoes. I can tell you that Muay Thai kicks, with or without shoes, is still more effective than Taekwondo with or without shoes. No offense, Taekwondo has it's strengths, it's just that one of Muay Thai's strengths is kicking like an explosion.

Heroic Wolf

Ya true, muay thai kicks are like explosions! However, if I was wearing a shoe and kicking with the body motion for a muay thai roundhouse kick, would kicking with my shoe result in less force than kicking with my shin?

Garland

More weight = more mass, more mass= more force.

Which would be better to crack the bridge of somebodies nose with, a cell phone or a dumbell?

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Komm Susser Todd.

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Heroic Wolf

Wait, so you mean that connecting with the shin has more mass (Sorry I'm so confused, I really have little experience when it comes to shoes-on kicking vs shoes-off, sorry)?

Ghost

youll have to turn the shoe in, so the toes land. the problem with the TKD kick is that it lands with the foot which is flexible and on a joint.
If you are wearing a shoe this doesnt change. this is why in essense TKD kicks dont hurt but can deliver a knockout if they land on the neck.

Personally i would never use the TKD style kick as it doesnt deliver enough power in comparison to a thai kick and shoe on or off youd have to turn the tip of the shoe in to avoid the flexibility issue of striking with the foot.
If you turn the shoe in, then the thai round house kick is even more powerful and will have the potential to crack ribs id guess in one shot.
potentially.
if you wear shoes you then have the option to land the tip of the shoe or the shin.
for low kicks the shin is always better and i wouldnt use much else in a street fight.

Kicking in a street fight is dodgy and only a few kicks are suitable. nothing above waistline and tbh not much at waistline either. mainly low kicks.

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Garland

No, I meant that making the foot heavier adds to the weight of the whole limb as it swings, which contributes to more force in the delivered blow.

Basically it's the same principle as punching somebody with a roll of quarters...the weight of a shoe, however, is negligable.

In short, the shoe for a thai kick isn't going to accomplish much more than the usual thai kick, unless you're aiming high enough to land the kick with your instep....which isn't advisable for a number of reasons.

Other kicks, however, can also work great; stomps to the knees, sipa kicks, scoop kicks to the groin, teaps to the body and knee have their place...and of course soccer kicks and Joe Pesci kicks are golden too.

Whatever works...works.

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Komm Susser Todd.

No, no...no no no...whatever you are drinking, you need much, much more...and then to sleep. - jubaji

DickHardman

what about using a tornado kick and then fallowing it up with a spinback kick?? you would use the tornado kick to knock him out, and then the spin back kick will hit him in the body before he hits the floor, effectively propelling him into the wall behind him as well as damaging his internal organs.

YouTube Video

Heroic Wolf

But if I use the shoe for a thai kick, I can hit as hard as with normal thai kick but from a slightly longer range. Isn't that a slight advantage?

Garland

High percentage kicks:

Muay Thai

YouTube Video

Yaw Yan

YouTube Video

Kyokushin

YouTube Video

...something different

YouTube Video

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Komm Susser Todd.

No, no...no no no...whatever you are drinking, you need much, much more...and then to sleep. - jubaji

Garland

have fun breaking your foot or your ankle.

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Komm Susser Todd.

No, no...no no no...whatever you are drinking, you need much, much more...and then to sleep. - jubaji

DickHardman

thats a savate kick i think. they kick like thai boxer, but use the point of the shoe for self defense. its effective enough that savate the martial arts is known for it.

tkd kicks usually arent as hard because they dont attempt to rotate through their target. but you can combine both, chambering your leg like a tkd kick, and then proceeding to rotate your hips completely as you kick. chambering your leg can confuse your opponent too, as you can deliver your kick high or low from the same chambered position.

someone around here once mentioned a martial artist that always trained in and always wore a pair of very hard cowboy boots. imagine getting kicked in the skull with a roundhouse kick with the point of sharp cowboy boots??? they said this guy was pinpoint accurate.

Garland

most of the traditional savate kicks I've seen delivered with the toe are chambered and fired from the knee.

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Komm Susser Todd.

No, no...no no no...whatever you are drinking, you need much, much more...and then to sleep. - jubaji