Thread: Shin guard - pro and contra

Good question. I dont really know the answer but i assume its a lack of shin conditioning and the fact they do two man drills which we rarely do in thailand so there is alot of shin banging because of that. Most people also are not fighters nor training to be fighters so the idea of the total shin conditioning is not something they go into full throttle(whereas in a kaimuay everyone is dedicated to full throttle training and most if not all are pro fighters from the kids on down). Usually wearing protective gear is for safety and in a class in the west usually they take those measures. I am sure others will have their input on this.

shin guards are great for those of us westerners that don't seem to want to condition, or remember that others figfht every week. helmets only stop cuts. the man telling you it stops brain damage is an idiot, and selling you a dangerous bill of goods. simple physics

Originally Posted by george stando

Good question. I dont really know the answer but i assume its a lack of shin conditioning and the fact they do two man drills which we rarely do in thailand so there is alot of shin banging because of that.

To go a little deeper, I think for the professional part inside Thailand you are right, they try to harden themselves. This is also the reason why most of the mostly younger fighters have a very short career. They have been used long enough and they (themselves) abused their body to a maximum.
I had the chance to learn MT from a Pahuyuth teacher and he used to say:"You only have one body, do not finish him for no reason...! This part your opponent does for you!"
I am learning to reduce damage by applying correct techniques. There are plenty of techniques you can use instead of 'harding'. You can kick e.g. where your target is less hard and you can train the frontside-shin-muscle to reduce the damage to you bone etc.
For sure harden yourself is not the best way.
The non-commercial fighter usually still practice the traditional way and avoid shin guards. This way you learn to use your leg as a tool, and you learn how to handle a dose of pain, lol.

Most people also are not fighters nor training to be fighters so the idea of the total shin conditioning is not something they go into full throttle(whereas in a kaimuay everyone is dedicated to full throttle training and most if not all are pro fighters from the kids on down). Usually wearing protective gear is for safety and in a class in the west usually they take those measures. ...

I am boxing with students of my school and with students of locations with 'modern' methods and my experience is students wearing shin guards try to kick harder by using wrong techniques for kicking and defending. They usually think with shin guards they can kick very powerful, even in easy training seasons, this is the reason why they wear them (they think!!). So both sides try to go the hard way, the learning effect is minimized in order to "get over this round".
A good technique is rare to see, the fighters do not feel what they do wrong since they have these protectors. Even defending is usually a simple 'lift the knee/leg', no technique at all.
So I think using those shin guards has more disadvantages than advantages.


thaiboxer67,
I experienced the shin guard reduces the pain so you kick stronger. If you would have no shin guards I am sure many fighters would think twice if they kick always full power, and they would think about HOW to kick...
I am not sure about the brain damage. If you take a car as an example: modern cars are made to shrink during a crash taken out the energy so the passenger have to absorb less (more or less). This works. Maybe the same principle is used for this helmets??

Sieh

Originally Posted by Sieh Tanonchai

If you take a car as an example: modern cars are made to shrink during a crash taken out the energy so the passenger have to absorb less (more or less). This works. Maybe the same principle is used for this helmets??

Your brainpan doesn't shrink does it? Put on a helmet and run straight into a brickwall a couple of times. Your brain will bounce around into your skull like a pinball.

Originally Posted by Sieh Tanonchai

Originally MT was not designed to be practiced with shin guards neither helmet etc.

Originally MT wasn't designed to use weightclasses, gloves or gummshields either. Big deal. You already answered this particular question yourself. Only an idiot would not use shinguards just cause it makes him a 'toughguy' in his mind. Those are the kind of people that start kicking lanternpoles to show how 'hard' they are. And then later in life they wonder why walking has become so difficult.

Originally Posted by the tick

Originally MT wasn't designed to use weightclasses, gloves or gummshields either. Big deal. You already answered this particular question yourself. Only an idiot would not use shinguards just cause it makes him a 'toughguy' in his mind. Those are the kind of people that start kicking lanternpoles to show how 'hard' they are. And then later in life they wonder why walking has become so difficult.

lol that point kills me

If your going to make harder contact in training then wear shin pads for sure,if your going light for technical placement then its good to train without shin pads,after all we diont wear knee pads do we? and we can clinch and use the knee light,I like both ways personally.

Originally Posted by the tick

Your brainpan doesn't shrink does it? Put on a helmet and run straight into a brickwall a couple of times. Your brain will bounce around into your skull like a pinball.

Actually I think the brainpan "reduces"/shrinks and comes back to its shape again. So the power of a hit is not stopped within 0.01-0.1 inch (no protection), but within 1 inch (with protection). Should help a little.
But don't get me wrong, I think you should not use a helmet at all, it changes the behavior of fights and fighters in a negative way.

Originally MT wasn't designed to use weightclasses, gloves or gummshields either.

You are right, I agree.

You already answered this particular question yourself. Only an idiot would not use shinguards just cause it makes him a 'toughguy' in his mind. Those are the kind of people that start kicking lanternpoles to show how 'hard' they are. And then later in life they wonder why walking has become so difficult.

Seen from your point of view this is absolutely correct. If someone wants to be harder only and sacrifices his health, he does not good, sure.
Try to see it with other eyes: You do not need to show anybody anything, it is just you in your life about learning. You start from the scratch (even if you have been a champion before), learn techniques first by the movement, than with partner and no power in the hits. After a while you know the basics, so sparring makes sense for you and you have shown, that you are willing to learn. From the beginning you use mouthpiece, cup and gloves only, you learned to control your forces and how to hit, the different possibilities with different effects, you sparring partner helps you to develop since the one with more knowledge has to adapt to the one with less knowledge and he is not allowed to use more techniques neither to hurt (not badly). There is no winner and no looser, no championship to go for, it is all about learning and improving, for yourself.
As I mentioned before, hardening is not the way. My objective is to still hit hard when I am 70 years young.

fire cobra,
another way to train is not to use shin guards. If you learn how to fight without them from the beginning you and your partner know kicking harder can "cut both ways". If the kicked person also learned how to defend, what is the basic goal of the training, he simply uses techniques what makes the kicker reducing power, simply by pain...
There are so many ways to kick and to defend kicks using this available options enriches your fight dramatically.
There are some videos on youtube showing quite a few techniques not very well known to most MT-fighters, but they are there, available for everyone.

Sieh

no amount of padding keeps the brain frtom sloshing...the neck still snaps forward backward and slightly to the side like...it gives false sense of protection and a true amount of anti-cut protection. want to save brain cells? DON"T GET HIT IN THE HEAD....only way i know to do that

Originally Posted by Sieh Tanonchai

Actually I think the brainpan "reduces"/shrinks and comes back to its shape again. So the power of a hit is not stopped within 0.01-0.1 inch (no protection), but within 1 inch (with protection). Should help a little.

Doubtfull. Not unless your a baby. And since helmets seems to encourage the use of the hardest possible blow coupled with less cover, hey your wearing a helmet, it's only good to prevent some shallow cuts.

But don't get me wrong, I think you should not use a helmet at all, it changes the behavior of fights and fighters in a negative way.

I actually agree with you here. Never use them. Tried one once just to see what it's like. Damn thing kept blocking my sight.

Seen from your point of view this is absolutely correct. If someone wants to be harder only and sacrifices his health, he does not good, sure.
Try to see it with other eyes: You do not need to show anybody anything, it is just you in your life about learning. You start from the scratch (even if you have been a champion before), learn techniques first by the movement, than with partner and no power in the hits. After a while you know the basics, so sparring makes sense for you and you have shown, that you are willing to learn. From the beginning you use mouthpiece, cup and gloves only, you learned to control your forces and how to hit, the different possibilities with different effects, you sparring partner helps you to develop since the one with more knowledge has to adapt to the one with less knowledge and he is not allowed to use more techniques neither to hurt (not badly). There is no winner and no looser, no championship to go for, it is all about learning and improving, for yourself.
As I mentioned before, hardening is not the way. My objective is to still hit hard when I am 70 years young.

lol
This is the quasi philosophical talk I've come to expect from Pahuyuthi's. Allthough for a Pahuyuti you seem to be less arrogant then most of them.

Originally Posted by the tick

lol
This is the quasi philosophical talk I've come to expect from Pahuyuthi's. Allthough for a Pahuyuti you seem to be less arrogant then most of them.

lol
:-)
I am glad you know about Pahuyuth, the art of Pahuyuth is not well known, neither inside Thailand nor outside.
How does it come you heard of it, I am curious about the complete story :-) .
And what did you mean by 'philosophical talk' and arrogance?
I am not sure.

thaiboxer67,
saving brain cells? Well, first I need to know where I get them, the 2nd step could be thinking about how to save them...
;-)

Sieh

Originally Posted by Sieh Tanonchai

lol
:-)
I am glad you know about Pahuyuth, the art of Pahuyuth is not well known, neither inside Thailand nor outside.

How does it come you heard of it, I am curious about the complete story :-) .
And what did you mean by 'philosophical talk' and arrogance?
I am not sure.

Oh. I came across some Pahuyuth's on a German forum. They tend to talk like a bunch of (wannabe) intellectuels. Treating anyone who doesn't agree with them as if he/she is a dumb little kid in need of (re)education. By them. Cause if you didn't acknowledge that the 'power and the glory' belongs to the disciples of the almighty Pahuyuth thou are not worthy to breath the same virtual air they breath. Of course they put it in a much more elaborated fashion. Meaning more words. A LOT more words. But the contempt they held for those who did not agree with them was obviouse. As a result of course they were mocked by the rest. But that did not stop them from trying to convert others with less experience or just starting with MT.
It was basicly a 'my style PWNS your style' discussion.
I thought it was pretty funny.

Originally Posted by the tick

Oh. I came across some Pahuyuth's on a German forum. They tend to talk like a bunch of (wannabe) intellectuels. Treating anyone who doesn't agree with them as if he/she is a dumb little kid in need of (re)education. By them. Cause if you didn't acknowledge that the 'power and the glory' belongs to the disciples of the almighty Pahuyuth thou are not worthy to breath the same virtual air they breath. Of course they put it in a much more elaborated fashion. Meaning more words. A LOT more words. But the contempt they held for those who did not agree with them was obviouse. As a result of course they were mocked by the rest. But that did not stop them from trying to convert others with less experience or just starting with MT.
It was basicly a 'my style PWNS your style' discussion.
I thought it was pretty funny.

I checked youtube and found tapes made in Germany.
are these the pahuyuth guys you are talking about:

YouTube - Applications for MUAI kicking techniques

is a demonstrations of techniques, isnt it?