Thread: What is Muay?

Hi Black crown,
thanks for all yout informative posts.

I have doubts about muay boran and muay ka chuak since it seems they
have been created more recently and they want to encompass all the old styles and roll them into one.
I asked my teacher in Thailand about muay ka chuak and he told me tere wasn't such a thing as a proper style, ka chuak was only the way they bound their fists.
I think they call muay ka chuak the yearly bouts between Thailand and Burma, but I think that's just a term for "bare knuckle" and not to indicate a style.
Thanks!

Yeah you are right. Kaad Chuak.... Firstly, It's not style. It's the way they wrap their hands in ancient time.

Term Muay Kaad Chuak is normally used to indicate the different from sport MT at the point of use threads wrapped around fists and arms instead of gloves.

It've been brought to yearly bouts between Thailand and Burma as you said for years. The fighters are sport or professional boxers at that time. So in that occasion just glove and no glove thing only.

The real meaning has changed as time goes by. Some mean it as old style cos modern MT uses glove.

I don't know who originally used term Muay Boran. We accept it as the meaning of Muay in traditional style which different from MT sport by now. It may came from commercial name.....May be.

So Muay Boran means Muay in the style different to MT in the ring. It could be Chaiya or Korat or Lopburi or others.

Yes, it just means ancient way of fighting.
That's what has been so damaging in the West.
If there are authentic older styles and each has or had a lineage and record,
then why create muay boran?

I enquired a bit and the answer I got (both from Thailand and from the West) was that muay boran was created by the physical education department, and I even saw Thai kids doing that in schools, along with some krabi krabong.
And here too, there are issues about phys ed. and authentic old KK styles,
which were not referred to as krabi krabong when I asked about them in Thailand. But that's another topic!

William
I dont think what you are saying is correct at all! The term krabi krabong is correct, they all say krabi krabong but then it becomes the different systems of krabi krabong, sitarait, buddhai sawan, etc. Most people dont understand that in the US. Everyone uses krabi krabong, just like everyone uses muay. Muay Thai is known, muay boran is known now more for what is has become to distinguish it from muay thai which is fought in the ring. Chaiya, korat are distinct styles of muay or what they would say muay boran. So there is distinction, there is absolutely no debate here in thailand about krabi krabong, muay boran, muay thai, but within those terms krabi krabong and muay boran there is distinction and debate. So its a way, way, way different issue than kali, arnis, escrima......not the same. In recent times, there is krabi krabong for school systems like public education and muay boran too kids can learn, muay boran here is seems is an overview of all the styles with no fighting or outlet, they even have muay thai in college as a course. So its not the same thing in essence. So if you took a muay boran class and a muay chaiya class right at the start it would be different although muay boran would encompass some chiaya moves, it is not muay chaiya. Thats what i have seen and experienced here with my teacher as we went to the different classes, i mean you can see the differenet in intent and how hard the training was in chaiya vs the boran or whatever that would be accurately called. if want combative accuracy you certainly are not going to study muay boran in a phys ed class -same as krabi krabong--once understood then you will get a better idea. There is no confusion, its just some the people in the west that are confused about it. Most of which are trying to "sell" thier system and ideas. I think part of the problem too is the thais confuse alot of it they just want to teach whatever and say its just this or that. But if you go see the different teachers and classes they are different in structure, intensity and outcome. Even in stance, the muay korat stance is different from a muay chaiya stance and the approach to fighting. The starting posture from buddhaisawan in the doublesword is different form another style so you are engaging the opponent from a distinct starting position and basing your attacks from that. Of course, there is alot of common stuff to each style and thus the common stuff probably winded up in the classes of kk and mb. Those are my own observations from what I attended and saw, though limited was quite clear in the distinct lines. So in the end i would just add this little bit to the discussion since the title of the thread is muay--that muay boran can mean a physical education version created by those people for the schools like de Cesaris teaches and the other muay boran can be a blanket for the distinct muays of korat, etc. Thats the confusion for the muay stuff, muay thai remains just muay thai. I stick with the distinct words buddhaisawan,sitariat for kk systems like you said and muay boran for the phys education and muay korat, lopburi,lanna, for the distinct styles thats how my american teacher clearly defines them and the teachers and lines of those systems, so its very clear and accurate photo of the entire frame of whats out there. The thais dont seem to want it to be clear like that so maybe that too is part of the problem.

I just dont see any confusion here if you train and see it, its not confusing at all.

Clarity is coming. As you see with the pahuyuth issues, certain people want to pollute and redirect and confuse people and they do an excellent job of that.

Most stuff on the internet is to sell, its mostly for a persons ego and I am this or that. You see very little research and breakdown of it or any truth to it. So when you say the internet is confusing well you need to go to sources of clarity, true training, and such. If you look at 99% of the posts and sites, it usually selling this system or this teacher or this person, its not about indepth training or presenting an open situation with clarity.

Also people have fought against the true stuff coming out and its mostly other thais who started the muay boran phys ed confusion as something to sell to gulliable foreigners, just look at the pahuyuth situation then you start with krabi krabong, muay boran, muay chaiya. You have a war at every end. People still live in the stone ages thinking buddhaisawan is the only kk method, i mean come on. Those days are over.

But the truth will prevail. It always does.

I think the biggest problem is language barrier.

Also as "Muay Boran",... If u don't understand what "Boran" means. You'll misinterpretation as this issue now.

If I say "Boran" to Thai, He will then understand that it's old and ancient or outdated......That's it.

Then you may think of Korat, KaadChuak, Chaiya, etc.

I would say whatever kinds of Muay which not normally use nowsaday in the ring. We will call it Muay Boran in general.

Under Muay Boran "Umbrella". There are many styles of Muay.

Some are olds and has linages but some are just recently mixed up and used "Boran" to add value for their commercial.

Muay Chaiya, Korat, Tasao, Lopburi , etc..are old and real. But some just brought their students wearing old style clothings, wrap their hands with threads then call it Boran.

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Same as Arwuth Thai (Thai weapons) also known and well known as Krabi Krabong.

Arwuth Thai or Krabi krabong has subsets as each weapons used. then set of different styles from different campus or locations. ( Bhuddhaisawan, Sritrairat, Krom Pala or Phy. Edu., Sriayuthtaya, Artamart Naresuan, etc. They all are under krabi krabong or awuth thai. Some are close to others, some are not. They have their own style. you'll know them by their stance or movement.)

Some call his arts as Krabi Krabong, some don't and remain calling as Arwuth Thai.


Let's say like this. You are going to hunt ducks. some say Ducks hunt, Shoot the ducks, Fire the ducks, whatever....It' the same.. But where you hunt?, How u hunt?, what r u going to use.? That's the different.

So as Muay Boran, Krabi Krabong...


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Please let me apologize for my poor english.