Kvntu

I am not a Muay Thai expert but I do respect the art highly. When you watch Thai fighters train their punching techniques, it looks very similar to western boxing. It appears to be the most direct and fluid hand strikes in Asia. My question is has it always looked like this or if not when did they incorporate western boxing concepts into their system?

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kyuss

It is similar in sense to western boxing and some muay thai guys have gone to have successful western boxing careers after their muay thai days are done.

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Michael Wright

I am from a Boxing background and recently trained for several weeks in Thailand. The hand techniques that I saw over there were good, solid western boxing. The primary differences I recognised were:

a) The base and structure are obviously different. The Boxing base is designed with mechanics, footwork and upper body mobility in mind. The Thai base has to consider a wider range of tools and the need for a greater variation of defence against those tools.

b) Certain distinct features of Boxing movement and defence are not best advised in the Thai arena. For example constant bobbing, weaving and ducking compromises your structure and defence, and are therefore not encouraged.

c) The hands are taught more as a support system, with the primary emphasis being on the kicks, knees and elbows. That's not to say the boxing basics weren't good, its just thats all they need - the basics.

Just my observations, but I was very grateful for my Boxing background and there can be no doubt it benefitted my Muay Thai

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MY GIRL CAN'T KICK OR GRAPPLE, BUT YOU SHOULD SEE HER BOX

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george stando

Thats a nice breakdown, michael. I have a pretty deep boxing backround as well. There are some camps that have boxing champs in them so they cross train because the boxers were former muay thai. I liked training in that environment.

Punches unless you score a ko which ends the bout, count less point wise in the ring, i was told dont know if that is still true. So it maybe made them less hands determined since many fights end in decision and will go to the score cards.

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black crown

IMHO, I think the first one who adapted boxing into Muay Thai was Soonthorn Taweesit or Kru Kimseng. In 1903 When Kru Kimseng was 14 yrs old he went to singapore for study. In Singapore he had class of boxing according to National Sporting Rules. After his graduation and came back to Thailand he continued studie Muay Thai from many masters. Especially Kru Kiew at the border of Ayutthaya and Saraburi. Kru Kimseng's knowledge of boxing made him great advantage of the use of puches.

MT today doesn't use a lot of old style punches but they adapt boxing punches into it.

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kyuss

theres a difference in the way the bare knuckle guys do their training to the muay thai guys, there is definitely more of the western boxing influence in it but it seemed to sneak in, slowly over time I been watching the older fights and you can see they tightened up the hands as the sport moved along.

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Michael Wright

That's exactly what I was told too George. KO with the hands by all means, but don't try to win on points by boxing. I guess that's why the hand techniques we focussed on were not really combinations but more strong single shots or heavy one-two's. The emphasis on points came far more from the round kicks above the waste, and dominating the clinch.

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fire cobra

Punches can score the same as any other technique in Muay Thai if and here is a key point they a) show effect,B)stop the opponent from walking forward and returning fire,C)force the opponent to cover up or turn away.

Obviously if the punches cause a knock down the Boxer may get a count(not always if he gets up quickly and fights back straight away).

The puncher that scores a knockdown but gets for example knees landed on his body the whole fight will not win as the boxer landing the knees is classed as using Muay Thai skills and tactics to land the knee consistantly whereas the knock down could of been a lucky punch.

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george stando

firecobra, thanks for the clarification on that.

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fire cobra

Your very welcome George,its fair to say that continual kicks and or knees to the body of a opponent and or off balancing will win over punches everytime unless the punches are having a real telling effect,the fist is the only weapon thats padded after all so not as effective in scoring unless the criteria I mentioned on my above post is met.

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george stando

Makes sense. I questioned it for a time because of the lack sometimes of scoring for a person who threw continual punches but did not score a knockdown in the final decisions which were usually skewed against them in thailand. But your explanation sheds light on why that would be if the other person is in full use of his tools in the fight.

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fire cobra

George for a long while I wasnt fully aware of the scoring system in Thailand and often wondered how decisions were made,sometimes scratching my head thinking blue should of won and red did etc,now Im becoming more aware of the scoring system Im finding it makes perfect sense,I still get things wrong when I watch fights but nowhere near as much as before(Id of lost a fortune in Lumpinee!).

The main thing to look for is who is controlling the fight,who is keeping his opponent off balance physically and mentally,who is using correct Muay Thai weapons with good style,whos work is more effective etc etc.

As you know the Thais start slow in rnds 1 and 2 slowly checking out the opponents timing before going to work in rnds 3,and 4, rnd 4 being the money round usually,often Rnds 1 and 2 are scored equal and the boxer finishing stronger will surely win the bout.

Scoring is a area think we should all become more aware of,it would help us understand and appreciate Muay Thai even more than we do already.

Interesting discussion to George.

Thanks.

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sdfergre

bookmarked and b back l8er, bro, :-)

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black crown

It's gambling business today. The way they make decisions in the ring change from time to time. It's not a fighter's decision. It's a gambler's decision.

They don't fight for winning only. Sometimes they fight for loosing. Muay Thai Mafia are among those promoters, camp owners, etc.

If you have a talk with those boxers and ask them why you fight ike that? They may reply you that it's living. They just fight to win or loose only. A lots of them don't care whether it's beautiful or not. Just try to get the scores and end the fight with less pain.

Not only you guys but among us Thai we don't like this way either.

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fire cobra

Thats very true Black Crown,

Gambling changed the sport and heavily influences the scoring(to much sometimes).

Is it not also true that gambling has kept the sport of Muay Thai alive? The Gamblers are the ones that watch the fighting rather than the general Thai public.

This in turn has allowed Muay Thai to be seen and loved around the world.

In the future it could well be the foreigner that keeps the sport alive such is the interest amongst us farang.

Another interesting discussion could come from this!.

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