muay thai blocking

cfr · 07-05-2002, 06:40 PM

I have recently asked lots of questions regarding Muay Thai and Kenpo.
My very limited MA experience is this:
6 months in a guys garage. A combination of kickboxing, bjj, judo,
and Jap jui jutsu. He moved away.
5 months Hapkido. Cant say I really beleived in it.
3 months Kenpo. Left due to foot injury that Im still recovering from.
So my new question is:
Watching UFC's I have noticed that blocking in any traditional sense is non existant. Ive always doubted regular Karate blocks and that reemphasized it for me. However, parrying , redirecting, deflecting has always made sense to me. Does Muay Thai do any of this? My guess is that it is purely keeping the hands up trying to not get hit. If so, how does that do without gloves? I mean after all, it would easier to get a non gloved hand through a small opening that it would a gloved one. Ive often wondered watching UFC's if an attempt to parry a punch would have been benifial to the guy getting smacked in the head while just trying to keep his hands up? All insight would be appreciated

PentjackSilat · 08-30-2002, 10:33 AM

Don't block

Don't parry

Hit him first and keep hitting

08-30-2002, 11:58 AM

That's kind of hard when that is exactly what he is doing to you.

Having a limited number of defensive moves that you can use automatically without compromising your stance and balance is a great addition to your armoury.

jonbid · 08-30-2002, 01:40 PM

i been kickboxing lessons only a couple of times an the first thing i was taught was how to stand then he went to punches, the basics. He didnt tell me how to block anything, but when the instructor asks me to spar with him, an he kickin me an everythin, i learnt quickly how to block.

well how to stop him kickin my ass.

terry · 08-30-2002, 02:32 PM

If I were standing in your corner when this went down I would say: "Hit him. Because he is going to hit you."

How hard is he hitting you? If he is knocking down a guy with two lessons he is going too hard on a guy of lesser skill. In that event find another teacher. If he's pushing you and wants to test your spirit and committment, then show him what you're made of.

In the meantime, evade. Start jumping rope to get up on your toes and start your legs moving. As soon as you can, learn the knee shield for kicks and parry, bob, weave and slip for punches.

Terry

Jimbo · 08-30-2002, 02:33 PM

I think blocking is just as important as hitting. You can use the perry's to open up for a combination.

Many times a perry cocks you for the oppisite punch. If I perry a straight right, my right is cocked and ready to throw, and vica versa.

The shin guard is a block, and it sets you up to return fire. If I raise my left leg for a shin block, I can put it down at a 45 and be loaded for my right round.

Bobs and weaves are defensive moves, but they also set you for some nice offensive. If I bob to the left, I am set up for my left uppercut, the same with the right.

What about the straight knee? Part of that is to pull down the cross to strike with the knee.

I have learned another block that my instructor calls, "hit if early, cover if late". If a left hook is thrown at your head, you block and step in. If your early, you nail your opponent with your elbow, if your late, you block the punch.

Throwing punches with good form is defense too. A fighter needs to keep his hands up, chin down and shoulder tight against the chin. This defends against punches, elbows and plum entries.

I think much of the defense is a good offense too. If being kicked high with a round, kick low with a round.

So again, with my little knowledge I do have, this is my opinion. Do any of you more experienced fighters have something to add or subtract?

Brian · 08-30-2002, 07:22 PM

Just for the record,

Quote:

I have learned another block that my instructor calls, "hit if early, cover if late". If a left hook is thrown at your head, you block and step in. If your early, you nail your opponent with your elbow, if your late, you block the punch.

First, I don't call it "hit if early, cover if late". It's just a high cover. Second, the quote is from Ajarn Surachai Sirisute. He is the one who says "hit if early, cover if late". I don't want anybody to think that I am taking credit for this man's brilliance.

I am simply clay in the master's hands. My only wish is to help in whatever small way I am able, to spread this man's teachings and insights about the beautiful art of Muay Thai and Thai Boxing.

Long live Ajarn Chai, Long live Muay Thai!

PentjackSilat · 08-31-2002, 02:02 PM

Bri Thai, we meet again.

I don't believe you understood what I meant. When I say hit him. I mean that is your counter. He tries to hit you, and you hit him. Hell, if he even moves, hit him.

It takes time to learn to block a punch, it also takes time to learn to counter a punch with a hit. I would rather spend the time learning to hit him than passively blocking everything he throws.

Here is an example:

He throws a jab, you throw a Right Thai Kick into his exposed ribs.

How about more:

He throws a Right Thai Kick, you Foot Jab his nuts.

He throws a Left Low Thai Kick to your lead leg, you lift that leg and Foot Jab him in the nuts again.

Or this:

He throws a foot jab, you elbow his foot and kick his leg as it hits the ground.

If you want to catch his jab, shield his kicks, and parry his foot jab...go ahead. I'd rather spend the time training to hit him everytime he even thinks about hitting me.

Now I do understand that sometimes you screw up, in those instances you should have an "oh crap!" cover. But, think hit!

"Hit no matter what, cover if you screw up."

That's my training philosophy.

jonbid · 08-31-2002, 02:49 PM

well no he hasnt knocked me over yet, but he does take the wind out of me. It only makes me want to get better so that i can stand up to him. He's a good teacher and i think he is a good person.

He does it to everyne and they are good so i suppose it makes us learn

09-01-2002, 11:27 AM

Where've ya been Pentjack?

Anyway, I agree with you to an extent. I would imagine that could work well in the street where you have about a minute to either blast someone or be blasted.

But what about a lengthy ring fight? And what about the times you do screw up. Your method is much more difficult to do than blocking/countering. And it won't be too long before a good fighter will be drawing your techniques to sucker punch you.

"Cover if you screw up" only works if he doesn't knock you out with the first blow, which a good fighter could.

PentjackSilat · 09-01-2002, 12:25 PM

In my experience you need a combination of both in a ring fight, emphasizing the hit first strategy.

Yes, if he is a good fighter he can knock you out quickly, but the reciprocal is also true. If you're a good fighter who nails him with a good counter shot the first time he throws something, and you follow up with a flurry of well placed strikes that have devastating power and accuracy...he's dead meat.

Of cousre that is a big "What if?"

So, you do have defensive skills, because no matter what I or anyone else says...they're necessary.

But intercepting him with a hit before he hits you, instead of passivley blocking or parrying it, is a more intelligent and effective way of approaching the situation. In my opinion.

09-02-2002, 04:09 AM

It's like most things. It may be better, but you pay with a higher risk factor. But it is great if you pull it off.

terry · 09-02-2002, 09:51 PM

Good advice received so far on this thread. There is another strategy as far as blocking Thai kicks. The logic is as follows:

You kick him and he shields --> you win
He kicks you and you shield --> you win
You kick him and he doesn't shield --> you win
He kicks you and you don't shield --> he wins

3 out of 4 is pretty good odds. It only works if your shins are hard though. But it's a great feeling when they throw their best kick into your shin and you tell them, "Ohhh, that feels good. Let me have some more." It messes with their confidence.

Terry

Bau13 · 09-03-2002, 01:39 PM

yeah... better drink more milk...

dont end up like that guy in the famous "leg break" video!!

OUCH!!!

Double Dose · 09-06-2002, 02:33 AM

Some camps only teach defense first. No offensive strikes at all until there is a solid defense in place. I personally think defense and blocking parrying etc are extremely important but should be balanced so as not to make a fighter a defensive-only fighter.
Good Luck and keep those hands up!
Double Dose

07-05-2002, 06:40 PM	#1 (permalink)
cfr Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 85	muay thai blocking I have recently asked lots of questions regarding Muay Thai and Kenpo. My very limited MA experience is this: 6 months in a guys garage. A combination of kickboxing, bjj, judo, and Jap jui jutsu. He moved away. 5 months Hapkido. Cant say I really beleived in it. 3 months Kenpo. Left due to foot injury that Im still recovering from. So my new question is: Watching UFC's I have noticed that blocking in any traditional sense is non existant. Ive always doubted regular Karate blocks and that reemphasized it for me. However, parrying , redirecting, deflecting has always made sense to me. Does Muay Thai do any of this? My guess is that it is purely keeping the hands up trying to not get hit. If so, how does that do without gloves? I mean after all, it would easier to get a non gloved hand through a small opening that it would a gloved one. Ive often wondered watching UFC's if an attempt to parry a punch would have been benifial to the guy getting smacked in the head while just trying to keep his hands up? All insight would be appreciated

08-30-2002, 10:33 AM	#2 (permalink)
PentjackSilat Novice Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Miami Posts: 116	Don't block Don't parry Hit him first and keep hitting __________________ We will not fade... We will not falter... And we will never EVER give up... -Team Cham

08-30-2002, 02:32 PM	#5 (permalink)
terry Moderator Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Pacifica, CA USA Posts: 571	If I were standing in your corner when this went down I would say: "Hit him. Because he is going to hit you." How hard is he hitting you? If he is knocking down a guy with two lessons he is going too hard on a guy of lesser skill. In that event find another teacher. If he's pushing you and wants to test your spirit and committment, then show him what you're made of. In the meantime, evade. Start jumping rope to get up on your toes and start your legs moving. As soon as you can, learn the knee shield for kicks and parry, bob, weave and slip for punches. Terry Last edited by terry; 08-30-2002 at 02:52 PM.

08-30-2002, 02:33 PM	#6 (permalink)
Jimbo Novice Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 7	I think blocking is just as important as hitting. You can use the perry's to open up for a combination. Many times a perry cocks you for the oppisite punch. If I perry a straight right, my right is cocked and ready to throw, and vica versa. The shin guard is a block, and it sets you up to return fire. If I raise my left leg for a shin block, I can put it down at a 45 and be loaded for my right round. Bobs and weaves are defensive moves, but they also set you for some nice offensive. If I bob to the left, I am set up for my left uppercut, the same with the right. What about the straight knee? Part of that is to pull down the cross to strike with the knee. I have learned another block that my instructor calls, "hit if early, cover if late". If a left hook is thrown at your head, you block and step in. If your early, you nail your opponent with your elbow, if your late, you block the punch. Throwing punches with good form is defense too. A fighter needs to keep his hands up, chin down and shoulder tight against the chin. This defends against punches, elbows and plum entries. I think much of the defense is a good offense too. If being kicked high with a round, kick low with a round. So again, with my little knowledge I do have, this is my opinion. Do any of you more experienced fighters have something to add or subtract? __________________ James Boley

08-31-2002, 02:02 PM	#8 (permalink)
PentjackSilat Novice Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Miami Posts: 116	Bri Thai, we meet again. I don't believe you understood what I meant. When I say hit him. I mean that is your counter. He tries to hit you, and you hit him. Hell, if he even moves, hit him. It takes time to learn to block a punch, it also takes time to learn to counter a punch with a hit. I would rather spend the time learning to hit him than passively blocking everything he throws. Here is an example: He throws a jab, you throw a Right Thai Kick into his exposed ribs. How about more: He throws a Right Thai Kick, you Foot Jab his nuts. He throws a Left Low Thai Kick to your lead leg, you lift that leg and Foot Jab him in the nuts again. Or this: He throws a foot jab, you elbow his foot and kick his leg as it hits the ground. If you want to catch his jab, shield his kicks, and parry his foot jab...go ahead. I'd rather spend the time training to hit him everytime he even thinks about hitting me. Now I do understand that sometimes you screw up, in those instances you should have an "oh crap!" cover. But, think hit! "Hit no matter what, cover if you screw up." That's my training philosophy. __________________ We will not fade... We will not falter... And we will never EVER give up... -Team Cham Last edited by PentjackSilat; 08-31-2002 at 02:06 PM.

08-30-2002, 11:58 AM	#3 (permalink)
Bri Thai Guest Posts: n/a	That's kind of hard when that is exactly what he is doing to you. Having a limited number of defensive moves that you can use automatically without compromising your stance and balance is a great addition to your armoury.

08-30-2002, 01:40 PM	#4 (permalink)
jonbid Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 54	i been kickboxing lessons only a couple of times an the first thing i was taught was how to stand then he went to punches, the basics. He didnt tell me how to block anything, but when the instructor asks me to spar with him, an he kickin me an everythin, i learnt quickly how to block. well how to stop him kickin my ass.

08-31-2002, 02:49 PM	#9 (permalink)
jonbid Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 54	well no he hasnt knocked me over yet, but he does take the wind out of me. It only makes me want to get better so that i can stand up to him. He's a good teacher and i think he is a good person. He does it to everyne and they are good so i suppose it makes us learn

09-01-2002, 11:27 AM	#10 (permalink)
Bri Thai Guest Posts: n/a	Where've ya been Pentjack? Anyway, I agree with you to an extent. I would imagine that could work well in the street where you have about a minute to either blast someone or be blasted. But what about a lengthy ring fight? And what about the times you do screw up. Your method is much more difficult to do than blocking/countering. And it won't be too long before a good fighter will be drawing your techniques to sucker punch you. "Cover if you screw up" only works if he doesn't knock you out with the first blow, which a good fighter could.

09-01-2002, 12:25 PM	#11 (permalink)
PentjackSilat Novice Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Miami Posts: 116	In my experience you need a combination of both in a ring fight, emphasizing the hit first strategy. Yes, if he is a good fighter he can knock you out quickly, but the reciprocal is also true. If you're a good fighter who nails him with a good counter shot the first time he throws something, and you follow up with a flurry of well placed strikes that have devastating power and accuracy...he's dead meat. Of cousre that is a big "What if?" So, you do have defensive skills, because no matter what I or anyone else says...they're necessary. But intercepting him with a hit before he hits you, instead of passivley blocking or parrying it, is a more intelligent and effective way of approaching the situation. In my opinion. __________________ We will not fade... We will not falter... And we will never EVER give up... -Team Cham

09-02-2002, 04:09 AM	#12 (permalink)
Bri Thai Guest Posts: n/a	It's like most things. It may be better, but you pay with a higher risk factor. But it is great if you pull it off.

09-02-2002, 09:51 PM	#13 (permalink)
terry Moderator Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Pacifica, CA USA Posts: 571	Good advice received so far on this thread. There is another strategy as far as blocking Thai kicks. The logic is as follows: You kick him and he shields --> you win He kicks you and you shield --> you win You kick him and he doesn't shield --> you win He kicks you and you don't shield --> he wins 3 out of 4 is pretty good odds. It only works if your shins are hard though. But it's a great feeling when they throw their best kick into your shin and you tell them, "Ohhh, that feels good. Let me have some more." It messes with their confidence. Terry

09-03-2002, 01:39 PM	#14 (permalink)
Bau13 Novice Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 390	yeah... better drink more milk... dont end up like that guy in the famous "leg break" video!! OUCH!!! __________________ Everything happens for a reason...

09-06-2002, 02:33 AM	#15 (permalink)
Double Dose Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Fontana Ca Posts: 51	Some camps only teach defense first. No offensive strikes at all until there is a solid defense in place. I personally think defense and blocking parrying etc are extremely important but should be balanced so as not to make a fighter a defensive-only fighter. Good Luck and keep those hands up! Double Dose __________________ Col 3:23 Whatever you do, do it heartily as if unto God and not unto man.

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